Anakin's path to darkness too steep! (SPOILERS)

[fett527]

Vader actually never saw 3PO until he was in pieces on Cloud City. There's an EXTREMELY well written comic with him reflecting on it, which has one of my favorite images ever of Vader holding 3POs head to his helmet.

Of course, thinking about it now...I don't think Vader ever actually sees R2 through the OT at all. Well, except for shooting him in A New Hope, but that was starfighter combat and doesn't count.

The issue I have with C3PO (and I'll put this here since it came up with Vader) is when Owen purchases Threepio and R2 from the Jawas. 3PO lived at the Lars homestead for quite awhile. He doesn't leave until towards the last half of EP II. So do we explain Owen and Beru not recognizing C3PO as them keeping up the charade for Luke? Droids in the Star Wars universe are unique and this one even more so. Hard pill to swallow that one.

 

[Arnwyn]

The issue I have with C3PO (and I'll put this here since it came up with Vader) is when Owen purchases Threepio and R2 from the Jawas. 3PO lived at the Lars homestead for quite awhile. He doesn't leave until towards the last half of EP II. So do we explain Owen and Beru not recognizing C3PO as them keeping up the charade for Luke? Droids in the Star Wars universe are unique and this one even more so. Hard pill to swallow that one.

Really? From my watchings of all the Star Wars movies, I assumed that most droids are the same. A protocol droid is a protocol droid. Maybe others have "close enough" personalities/voice sounds that any familiarity is dismissed. (Heck, I thought 3PO and that Trade Federation protocol droid at the beginning of Ep 1 were fairly close enough - then add in the fact that they're mass-produced in the [probable] millions and millions...)

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

(Heck, I thought 3PO and that Trade Federation protocol droid at the beginning of Ep 1 were fairly close enough - then add in the fact that they're mass-produced in the [probable] millions and millions...)

They are mass-produced... In all honesty I'm trying to remember when C3P0 got his out frame finished… I know he walked around with his innards only for some time.

 

[fett527]

They are mass-produced... In all honesty I'm trying to remember when C3P0 got his out frame finished… I know he walked around with his innards only for some time.

the look may be similar (if not identical), but the designations (names) are different and they have unique personalities. And their step-brother actually built this one that they lived with for some time.

 

[fett527]

They are mass-produced... In all honesty I'm trying to remember when C3P0 got his out frame finished… I know he walked around with his innards only for some time.

He has his frame, though it was dull and gray, in EP II when Anakin and Padme go back to find out about Shmi.

 

[Villano]

He has his frame, though it was dull and gray, in EP II when Anakin and Padme go back to find out about Shmi.

What I find interesting about that scene is that Anakin recognizes C-3PO right away. I guess that's what's helping to fuel the "Why doesn't Vader recognize him?" questions.

But, what I find funny is that 3PO and R2 are still in service. They have to be about 40 years old. R2 is still compatible with starships? That seems odd.

 

[fett527]

What I interesting about that scene is that Anakin recognizes C-3PO right away. I guess that's what's helping to fuel the "Why doesn't Vader recognize him?" questions.

What I find funny is that 3PO and R2 are still in service. They have to be about 40 years old. R2 is still compatible with starships? That seems odd.

The Vader thing I don't have a problem with. Im trying to pick through my brain and I think I agree that Vader never even sees C3PO or R2D2 in the original trilogy.

I don't try to explain things like them still being in service, I don't have a problem with it. Just think upgrades!

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

And some more philosophical bits...

Addressing the second part of the quote first, I don't agree. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong; I haven't read the SW novels) that Jedi aren't allowed to marry, period. Not all married couples have a "bordering-on-obsession-need-a-restraining-order" variety of attachment; some are soulmates who can have a soothing, calming, strengthening effect on their partner.

But what happens when that soothing, calming presence in your life betrays you? Or dies?

I know from being reliant upon another person for stability and strength. If she were to leave me or die, I would be a basket case. If I *knew* she was going to die, and there was something, anything, I could do to save her... well, there's nothing else in the world that could motivate me more to do something I would otherwise regret.

Attachment, even the most benevolent kind, is risky for that reason. It can make you do awful things. That is why the Jedi fear it. Yep. Fear it. "There is no fear." Yeah, right. The Jedi fear the Sith. Most of all they fear becoming the Sith. They know what kind of emotions lead directly to the abuse of their power. So they tried to eliminate them. But there are indirect paths to those places. So they threw out the baby with the bathwater and tried to get rid of those as well. As a result, they do not serve their true purpose in the universe. And they stagnate, becoming vulnerable to the Sith more than ever.

The novelization makes this point during the conversation between Yoda and Qui-gon Jinn (who has been my pick as the "true" ideal Jedi since his appearance in tPM). I can only hope that the scene will be put back in for the DVD (or at least be among the deleted scenes).

As for the plot-y bits...

I asked this in another thread, but it didn't have the spoiler tag, so noone answered it... just how did Vader find out that Luke was his son? From what I saw in ep. 3, he thought Padme died before giving birth. Granted, the last name is a big clue, but not a definite one... in any of the EU books, did it ever mention that Vader investigated Luke's background?

I'm not much of a fan of the EU, but it seems to me that between noting that the pilot who destroyed the Death Star was drawing on the Force ("The Force is strong in this one."), and hearing about the new "Hero of the Rebellion," Luke Skywalker, he could have put 2 and 2 together.

But, what I find funny is that 3PO and R2 are still in service. They have to be about 40 years old. R2 is still compatible with starships? That seems odd.

They were in service to a Rebellion that probably wasn't swimming in cash, after all. Perhaps they were upgraded piecemeal, much as my computer is. Perhaps they simply weren't upgraded at all but were good enough.

It certainly seems that no one ever performed much maintenance on R2. His jets at the very least were clearly out of service by the time of IV.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

What I find interesting about that scene is that Anakin recognizes C-3PO right away. I guess that's what's helping to fuel the "Why doesn't Vader recognize him?" questions.

But, what I find funny is that 3PO and R2 are still in service. They have to be about 40 years old. R2 is still compatible with starships? That seems odd.

From everything I saw in the movies and in parts in the Expanded Universe, I tend to believe that there is little to no technical advancement.

The Death Star might seem impressive, but I doubt there is anything new behind it - the Empire just happens to be the only organization with enough money and the will to build such a thing. The old Republic Senate would never have been able to start such a project, unless every member planet could have its own Death Star - and in consequence, no member could have built one of its own - no resources, no way to keep it secret.
And there are no other indenepdent organizations with the same magnitude as the Republic.

In fact, there might have been some decline - watch the Naboo starfighters and their design - shimmering, shining, sleek - compare it to a ship like a Y-Wing - ugly, dirty, seemingly half-completed. (Though I prefer the Y-Wing or any episode IV+ ship to the old episode I-III designs)

 

[Demmero]

And some more philosophical bits...

But what happens when that soothing, calming presence in your life betrays you?

You either come to grips with the betrayal, learn from it, and get over it (more or less), or let it tear you apart.

I know from being reliant upon another person for stability and strength. If she were to leave me or die, I would be a basket case. If I *knew* she was going to die, and there was something, anything, I could do to save her... well, there's nothing else in the world that could motivate me more to do something I would otherwise regret.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unless there are some major medical breakthroughs in this century...this lady you depend upon IS going to die. So why aren't you working 20-hour days looking for a way to make humans immortal?

Attachment, even the most benevolent kind, is risky for that reason. It can make you do awful things. That is why the Jedi fear it. Yep. Fear it. "There is no fear." Yeah, right. The Jedi fear the Sith. Most of all they fear becoming the Sith. They know what kind of emotions lead directly to the abuse of their power. So they tried to eliminate them. But there are indirect paths to those places. So they threw out the baby with the bathwater and tried to get rid of those as well. As a result, they do not serve their true purpose in the universe. And they stagnate, becoming vulnerable to the Sith more than ever.

The novelization makes this point during the conversation between Yoda and Qui-gon Jinn (who has been my pick as the "true" ideal Jedi since his appearance in tPM). I can only hope that the scene will be put back in for the DVD (or at least be among the deleted scenes).

I'm with you on these points. Just as there's a danger in attachment, there's one for becoming too detached as well. Ep. 3 did a decent job of showing some of this. I originally thought that Qui-gon was pretty damned boring; now I have a better appreciation for him. He didn't try to do it all; he picked his spots and tried to do his best on those things he invested his time in.