Storyteller01
First Post
You could make this ability similar to a dagger in stats (No AoO's when someone gets close) at 1st level, and have it build up in power based on level. Maybe in lew of a familiar (thanks for the muse Ranger) 
And so I thought... what if mages attacked.... magically?
- Thread starter Naathez
- Start date
Here's another idea:
Lesser Arcane Fire: Similar to the Arcane Fire ability of the Archmage PrC, the caster may sacrifice a 0-level spell slot to deal 1d4 damage to a target within Medium range.
Yes, it's strictly better than the various energy cantrips, but I just can't see it being broken.
Lesser Arcane Fire: Similar to the Arcane Fire ability of the Archmage PrC, the caster may sacrifice a 0-level spell slot to deal 1d4 damage to a target within Medium range.
Yes, it's strictly better than the various energy cantrips, but I just can't see it being broken.
HeyLookItsMe
First Post
Quick response.
I like the idea alot, and I think I'll hop on after work to try and give my own take on it, but I did want to note that one must also consider the implications of DR. A high level barbarian could shrug off darts and crossbow bolts like they were nothing. Logically, this ability would bypass that DR which could be potentially a major balance issue. Or what about some kind of creature with DR/Magic? One assumes this is a magical affect, but again that could be game breaking, especially at lower level when spells and +1 swords are in short supply.
I like the idea alot, and I think I'll hop on after work to try and give my own take on it, but I did want to note that one must also consider the implications of DR. A high level barbarian could shrug off darts and crossbow bolts like they were nothing. Logically, this ability would bypass that DR which could be potentially a major balance issue. Or what about some kind of creature with DR/Magic? One assumes this is a magical affect, but again that could be game breaking, especially at lower level when spells and +1 swords are in short supply.
Laman Stahros
First Post
Is this a continuation of your previous post, Gez? If not, where did this come from?Gez said:
reanjr
First Post
Naathez said:
I think the main balancing point you are missing is the fact that a light crossbow has to be loaded and so can be fired once per round as a full round action (standard action to fire, move-equiv to reload). Add to that the fact that the light crossbow is one of the wizard's better weapons and giving them a weapon that can always be used and never taken away, and I think there are some problems.
I would instead make it a melee attack. 1d4 damage. x2 Crit.
Add a feat that allows them to use it at short range.
Add another that ups the damage to d8.
That would probably work out a bit better for balance.
Arkhandus
First Post
.........If a mage walked up to someone and slapped them for 1d4 damage with arcane energy, that mage would die the very next round when their hardly-singed foe cuts them down for 2d6+6 damage from his/her greatsword....since the mage has only around one or two dozen hit points anyway unless they're high level, in which case they may have three or four dozen HP...... I wouldn't think much of an 18 Intelligence wizard who walked into such a thing.
The original poster's idea here, effectively a light-crossbow-equivalent infinite-use magical strike, has these benefits over an actual light crossbow.....
1. Weightless. Wizards are usually physical weaklings y'know......
2. Takes no space. No need to spend move-equivalent actions drawing, sheathing, reloading, picking up, or whatnot.
3. Can't be lost/disarmed/destroyed.
4. No need for ammo. Infinite use, no reloading time, no bulky/weighty ammo.
Miscellany: Magical in nature, so doesn't work in/through an antimagic field, likely cannot be dispelled, probably considered to be a Spell-Like Ability, Spell Resistance applies against each strike probably (it better!).
I'd say treat it like a weapon in general, so Weapon Focus/Specialization and Improved Critical and such could be selected for it as appropriate; call it Magebolt or Magestrike or whatnot. Don't apply Strength modifier to damage. Make it a normal ranged attack, and composed of physical matter drawn from the surroundings or whatnot (so not a force effect or energy attack), dealing either bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage as the caster chooses for each bolt/strike/whatever. You may want to apply the caster's Intelligence modifier to damage, but I dunno.
Dilemmas: If you want to make it like a light crossbow, then say that the caster has to spend a move-equivalent action between uses of the Magebolt recharging its arcane energy. Otherwise, maybe specify that it can be used at the character's normal rate of attacks; also specify if Rapid Shot or the like can be used with it. I'd say that mages with this ability would not get a familiar, and maybe would lose their 0-level spells per day in exchange for this ability. It's too powerful to give them for free, though its usefulness certainly wanes in the later levels (it's still awefully potent at low levels; no mage would ever bother with Ray of Frost, Shocking Grasp, or the like, and would hardly ever both with Chill Touch or Burning Hands; Flaming Sphere and Melf's Acid Arrow would even be neglected by many mages).
The original poster's idea here, effectively a light-crossbow-equivalent infinite-use magical strike, has these benefits over an actual light crossbow.....
1. Weightless. Wizards are usually physical weaklings y'know......
2. Takes no space. No need to spend move-equivalent actions drawing, sheathing, reloading, picking up, or whatnot.
3. Can't be lost/disarmed/destroyed.
4. No need for ammo. Infinite use, no reloading time, no bulky/weighty ammo.
Miscellany: Magical in nature, so doesn't work in/through an antimagic field, likely cannot be dispelled, probably considered to be a Spell-Like Ability, Spell Resistance applies against each strike probably (it better!).
I'd say treat it like a weapon in general, so Weapon Focus/Specialization and Improved Critical and such could be selected for it as appropriate; call it Magebolt or Magestrike or whatnot. Don't apply Strength modifier to damage. Make it a normal ranged attack, and composed of physical matter drawn from the surroundings or whatnot (so not a force effect or energy attack), dealing either bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage as the caster chooses for each bolt/strike/whatever. You may want to apply the caster's Intelligence modifier to damage, but I dunno.
Dilemmas: If you want to make it like a light crossbow, then say that the caster has to spend a move-equivalent action between uses of the Magebolt recharging its arcane energy. Otherwise, maybe specify that it can be used at the character's normal rate of attacks; also specify if Rapid Shot or the like can be used with it. I'd say that mages with this ability would not get a familiar, and maybe would lose their 0-level spells per day in exchange for this ability. It's too powerful to give them for free, though its usefulness certainly wanes in the later levels (it's still awefully potent at low levels; no mage would ever bother with Ray of Frost, Shocking Grasp, or the like, and would hardly ever both with Chill Touch or Burning Hands; Flaming Sphere and Melf's Acid Arrow would even be neglected by many mages).
26 replies... I never ... had so many.... (tear rolls down cheek)
now.
First - I seem to have been unclear about one thing. Thouhg, now that you mention it, I might consider it, in my ORIGINAL idea the "spell" (Magestrike is actually nice, might call it that) was NOT a spell. That is, it DID not bypass damage reduction, or anything. Simply, it was as if the mage shot a weird - looking crossbow bolt from his hand.
Thus, all ranged feats are MEANT to apply, if slightly modified. And at the same time, ANY AND ALL limitations regarding crossbows, not the least of which is the move action to draw one or reload one. And antimagic fields aren't meant to stop it... in a way, imagine it like a kind of conjuration effect - a fire mage conjures a tiny meteor, whose flames aren't strong enough to burn anyone, but whose propelling force allows it to deal damage. (Oh, and it's PIERCING cause... er... oh, cause the meteor is all jagged and spiky.
)
But it's NOT conjuration, because mages who give up conjuration to specialize still have it. It's basically a crossbow built inside the mage's hand or staff.
Only without a trigger, or it might be dangerous to scratch your eye.![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
And I don't think mages would overlook the damage cantrips... mostly because THEY HAVE energy types. After all, I don't think the biggest problem keeping mages from using crossbows is the WEIGHT of the thing... AND I think that in a mage academy, assuming there was one, mages fould be taught how to defend themselves even when their spells were over...
(Sigh, how I hate anything that's limited in use per day...)
Secondly... all these ideas are food for the mind! glad to see my topic is calling up such good mindwork... keep it coming, I appreciate!
And attention Italian users... my email is open to you all! Well actually open to ALL users of Enworld. Don't know if it shows in my profile, it's
fabioghirelli@virgilio.it
And as a side note, the (rather free, you can't give off the sheer poetry in a translation) translation of MY part of Dante quotation was "Thus were quieted the bearded cheeks of the ferryman of the murky swamp, whose eyes were surrounded by wheels of fire." Yes, the ONLY reason I wish everyone spoke Italian would be so they could read Dante...
Come to think of it...
Dante went through hell, purgatory and heaven....
d'ya thing he got epic? It was SOME dungeon...
now.
First - I seem to have been unclear about one thing. Thouhg, now that you mention it, I might consider it, in my ORIGINAL idea the "spell" (Magestrike is actually nice, might call it that) was NOT a spell. That is, it DID not bypass damage reduction, or anything. Simply, it was as if the mage shot a weird - looking crossbow bolt from his hand.
Thus, all ranged feats are MEANT to apply, if slightly modified. And at the same time, ANY AND ALL limitations regarding crossbows, not the least of which is the move action to draw one or reload one. And antimagic fields aren't meant to stop it... in a way, imagine it like a kind of conjuration effect - a fire mage conjures a tiny meteor, whose flames aren't strong enough to burn anyone, but whose propelling force allows it to deal damage. (Oh, and it's PIERCING cause... er... oh, cause the meteor is all jagged and spiky.
) But it's NOT conjuration, because mages who give up conjuration to specialize still have it. It's basically a crossbow built inside the mage's hand or staff.
Only without a trigger, or it might be dangerous to scratch your eye.
And I don't think mages would overlook the damage cantrips... mostly because THEY HAVE energy types. After all, I don't think the biggest problem keeping mages from using crossbows is the WEIGHT of the thing... AND I think that in a mage academy, assuming there was one, mages fould be taught how to defend themselves even when their spells were over...
(Sigh, how I hate anything that's limited in use per day...)
Secondly... all these ideas are food for the mind! glad to see my topic is calling up such good mindwork... keep it coming, I appreciate!
And attention Italian users... my email is open to you all! Well actually open to ALL users of Enworld. Don't know if it shows in my profile, it's
fabioghirelli@virgilio.it
And as a side note, the (rather free, you can't give off the sheer poetry in a translation) translation of MY part of Dante quotation was "Thus were quieted the bearded cheeks of the ferryman of the murky swamp, whose eyes were surrounded by wheels of fire." Yes, the ONLY reason I wish everyone spoke Italian would be so they could read Dante...
Come to think of it...
Dante went through hell, purgatory and heaven....
d'ya thing he got epic? It was SOME dungeon...
reanjr
First Post
Arkhandus said:
You could apply Intelligence bonus.
And even then a d4 is more powerful than Ray of Frost if it is ranged. I would definitely make it melee. It seems to me that this should be last-resort type of stuff. Also think of the great benefit being able to destroy your bonds when you are tied up weaponless.
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