Andy Collins speaks - the Elf Wizard

[Illvillainy]

Last I heard it was Sean K. Reynolds who was the basis.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

I want to say either Sean Reynolds or Anthony Valterra, but I could be wrong.

But didn't Anthony have hair? Doesn't he still? SKR looks more like the Red Wizard.

 

[Li Shenron]

As I said in the other thread about that substlevel, it isn't an original sin. Elves were not designed to be good pure wizards, but to be good multiclassed wizards.

I didn't know this! But the reference to OD&D elves is true (IIRC how they were...). In that case, the multiclass / favored class rules actually do their job quite well for multiclassed elves, at least if Wizard is their secondary class.

 

[Turjan]

Elves were not designed to be good pure wizards, but to be good multiclassed wizards.

This is true, except that multiclassing wizards was never a good idea in D&D 3.x to begin with. Spellcasting classes are only viable if they have caster levels and access to spells according to their character class. This point just shifts the design problem from one spot to another; the concept is still pretty much useless.

If you look at OD&D (Old Diaglo & Dragons), you'll find that the "Elf" class is just a multiclass fighting-man/magic-user.

Hehe, I like your version of O"D&D" ! Anyway, the difference is that, in old D&D versions, fighter-mages actually worked (some will say that they worked too well ). With the much higher power ramp between levels in 3.x, this is no longer a given, but has to be solved via prestige classes. And these don't count for "favoured class", anyway.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

(honestly, I never understood at all why the Red Wizard was put in the 3.5 DMG).

It was mentioned that the Red Wizard is an example of a Campaign Setting Specific PrC. Remember that they gave PrCs 'categories' of sorts in the DMG 3.5

 

[MerricB]

Andy Collins has offered some notes on using non-PHB races (such as the Gray Elf and Sun Elf) with the variant rules from the "Races of..." series:

Andy Collins:
Any DM using races that aren't from the PH will have to decide how they interact with the various racial options presented in other books.

Even with the superior elf races, I still think the benefits of specialization compare favorably to the elf generalist wizard level, so I don't think it's a no-brainer.

####

I really should see how many players play specialists in preference to generalists (I prefer generalists, myself - I hate, hate, hate losing spell access!)

Cheers!

 

[johnsemlak]

I really strongly disagree with the "Elves should be sorcerers" viewpoint.

Elves should be spontaneous casters - that I can agree with. But the sorcerer, as written, can cast only a handful of spells. And, normally, big flashy effects like fireball and magic missile.

By the way magic works in the D&D world, I much prefer my elves to learn many, many types of magic spell over the years.

Agreed.

I would prefer to see Elf arcane spellcasters as being wizards with some ability to spontaneously cast spells, similar to the Cleric's spontaneous casting of healing spells.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It drives me nuts that the elves, who are supposed to be great wizards, get a bunch of weapon proficiencies and a god whose domains include war.

Like above, elves aren't supposed to be great wizards, they're supposed to be great wizard/warriors. They're not old codgers in beards, they're limber forest guerillas with a bit of farie in them.

They actually make pretty amazing Rangers, and Barbarians, magnificent spell-focused Bards, savvy Rogues and even excellent straight Fighters. Mutliclass any of these with Wizard, and head for a +1/level spellcasing PrC, and you're good to go.

Don't think of them as the party blaster. Think of them as the artsy-fartsy magic nancy boy with the heart of gold.

Gnomes would make FANTASTICALLY better blasters.

 

[TerraDave]

I think the entire "elves don't make good wizards" thing is spot on. In the homebrew campaign I'm building, I use three types of elves.

Wood Elves: +2 Dex, -2 Str, favored class ranger
These guys are the typical live in the woods and shoot bows really well elves. AKA Legolas.

Grey Elves: +2 Int, -2 Str, favored class wizard
These guys are the typical hide away from humans deep in the woods elves. AKA Eldrond, even if he is a half-elf.

High Elves: +2 Charisma, -2 Str, favored class sorcerer
These guys are the typical sail across the ocean and get all arrogant about it elves. AKA Galadriel.

I've always really liked breaking elves down into several subraces. Elves vary from humans with pointy ears to ephemeral, fae folk not only in fantasy lit, but in how I've seen people play them.

Mike, thanks for sharing. With these, Elves would be some of the best Wizards, Bards or Sorcerers. Not sure about multiclassed fighters though...BTW we give our wild elves a int penalty (as in the core rules), it has a certain irony

 

[Klaus]

I always thought that "favored class" meant that the race can more easily mix the abilities of said class with other professions. For instance:

- Nearly every dwarf, even an arcane caster, might know how to wear heavy armor and swing a battleaxe;
- Nearly every halfling knows how to hit where it hurts, and sneak around when he chooses to;
- Nearly every half-orc is able to fly into a frothing rage, and is almost as fast as a wolf;
- Nearly every gnome can sing illusions into being, and has a sizeable ammount of lore;
- Nearly every elf is capable of casting a few cantrips, can pen magical scrolls and has a familiar around;