Any Confirmation of Pay-for-PDFs?

Dragon Snack said:
According to Bill Slavesic, printing only costs "a couple of thousands of dollars" and they can't offer a discount on pdf's because they have so many other expenses.

I think that's a load of bull too, but that's what he said at the D&D Q&A at Gen Con last year (the one in the tiniest room at Gen Con I've ever seen)...

There are probably other factors at work here. I don't think your local B&M would like it much if you had to pay full price for the PHB from them but could buy it at 50% from the WotC website.

The gaming industry suffers the same fate: usually there is no discount between buying a retail copy from Gamestop and downloading a digital copy from the publisher/developer.
 

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MaelStorm said:
I agree with you Thasmodius. That's the main reason I won't subscribe to D&D Insider.

Plus, they should give a 15 to 25% reduction in price for digital copies. They save a load on distribution, transportation, and production. Why would they sell it full price?
The reason I consistently here why WotC is selling PDFs for full price is because they are working together with print retailers (like your favourite local gameshop, if you're lucky enough to have one) and they don't want to hurt or alienate them.

In the end, PDFs are not a focus for the majority of gamers, and don't work so well as advertising through placing the books on shelves. As long as WotC is dependent on book or game shops selling their products, they can't do anything to hurt them.

There are, off course, other possibilites - does the price for the print version cover mostly the expenses for printing, or mostly the expenses for developing the material? If the latter, you're paying for content, not for the material.
 

fnwc said:
There are probably other factors at work here. I don't think your local B&M would like it much if you had to pay full price for the PHB from them but could buy it at 50% from the WotC website.

The gaming industry suffers the same fate: usually there is no discount between buying a retail copy from Gamestop and downloading a digital copy from the publisher/developer.
A digital copy is not worth the same as a real book. 50% is too much but maybe somewhere around 75% to 80% of the full price is correct.

Anyway, I would be curious to compare how much people will buy a PDF version compare to real book sale?
 

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
The reason I consistently here why WotC is selling PDFs for full price is because they are working together with print retailers (like your favourite local gameshop, if you're lucky enough to have one) and they don't want to hurt or alienate them.

In the end, PDFs are not a focus for the majority of gamers, and don't work so well as advertising through placing the books on shelves. As long as WotC is dependent on book or game shops selling their products, they can't do anything to hurt them.

There are, off course, other possibilites - does the price for the print version cover mostly the expenses for printing, or mostly the expenses for developing the material? If the latter, you're paying for content, not for the material.
I agree that I pay mostly for the content.

OK sell it full price, but when, where, and how will it be available? I would like to see Mr. Scott Rouse answer these questions as soon as possible.
 

fnwc said:
There are probably other factors at work here.
Exactly, I don't believe it either. I thought I was pretty clear about that in my follow up comment...

I'm not convinced that it's because they are "supporting the FLGS" either, since I'm willing to bet (and I'm not a betting man) that Amazon's 37% discount (with a bonus 5% pre-order discount AND free shipping) is doing more to harm the FLGS than any pdf's that might end up floating around. If they wanted to "support the FLGS", they would restrict places like Amazon from slashing the price so dramatically.
 

Dragon Snack said:
I'm not convinced that it's because they are "supporting the FLGS" either, since I'm willing to bet (and I'm not a betting man) that Amazon's 37% discount (with a bonus 5% pre-order discount AND free shipping) is doing more to harm the FLGS than any pdf's that might end up floating around. If they wanted to "support the FLGS", they would restrict places like Amazon from slashing the price so dramatically.

And this is the problem with the PDF price point. You can conceivably wind up paying MORE for the PDF than you would for the book through Amazon. Yargh.
 

Dragon Snack said:
Exactly, I don't believe it either. I thought I was pretty clear about that in my follow up comment...

I'm not convinced that it's because they are "supporting the FLGS" either, since I'm willing to bet (and I'm not a betting man) that Amazon's 37% discount (with a bonus 5% pre-order discount AND free shipping) is doing more to harm the FLGS than any pdf's that might end up floating around. If they wanted to "support the FLGS", they would restrict places like Amazon from slashing the price so dramatically.

Several retailers asked about the Amazon prices and what could be done. WotC had two replies. One that there was nothing they could do about pricing and that they sold to all distributors equally. The second and more important point they repeated a couple of times was that the Amazon stock being sold was only around 1% of WotC book sales. The problem was one mostly of perception with people looking at Amazon to compare prices but in reality most books are still sold through regular stores.
 

JohnSnow said:
Purchase (or sale) price has nothing to do with what something costs to produce. You may have some vague concept of the law (although you seem to have a funny idea about ownership when you talk about losing the rights to something someone stole from you...), but your knowledge of basic business practices is pretty sketchy.

If you don't have the original, you have no right to the copy. Ask a lawyer, I did. It was part of a grad course on intellectual property and copyright. You can make a backup but you must also retain the original. If you lose the original, you're out of luck. Same if it's stolen or you sell it.

Price is something you set based on the value of the product you're providing. What's the utility of a digital edition compared to a physical book? It's less easily referenced at the table, but it can be put in multiple locations and all the books more easily transported. So, which wins out?

Retail price of a book is directly tied to the cost of production (including printing costs). The wholesalers take 70% of retail, giving the 30% to the publisher for each copy. That 30% has to not only cover the cost of production, but have some amount of profit. I've been in publishing for years. I've dealt with printers, costs, and pricing. This is how the industry works.

You're still playing the same game, and getting the same ruleset. If WotC decides to charge for a .pdf that you can put on, say, 5 computers, the place to start your pricing strategy is approximately that of a physical copy of the book, because you know how well that sells. Then, perhaps, you discount it based on a perceived lesser value.

You purchase a single copy of a pdf, not the rights to duplicate it. That's the very attitude that scares the hell out of publishers and prevents them from releasing pdfs.

But honestly, it has nothing to do with supply chain, distribution, or markups. That's why you pay $1 a song on iTunes, even though you might be able to buy a full album for $8 on Borders.

If you think the cost of products has nothing to do with supply chains, distribution, and markups, then you don't know anything about business.

Digital media does a great job of reducing costs in certain areas (printing, retail locations, wholesalers) but it still has to be distributed. Itunes takes a cut, just like every other distributor. There are different factors involved, but it's basically the same. Your income from a sale has to cover the cost of production (printing, art, studio time, etc) and include some profit. If you sales don't cover production cost, you're losing money with each sale and you won't last long as a business.

You pay $1 on a song from itunes because they know (and the music industry knows) that they either price the songs low enough or people will just go out and steal them. A physical CD costs $15 for a few songs you like and a few songs you might not like. You can illegally download all of them for free, or you can pay $4 to itunes for the songs you want off the album. At least through itunes the musicians make some money. That's why itunes is so cheap. Comparing itunes to bargain priced CDs is a bit silly.
 

am181d said:
I know that we're no longer going to get free PDFs with our book purchases. Does anyone know if Wizards has *firmly* committed to fullish-price PDFs? There are certain books I'd like hard copies of, but I'd just as soon buy some of them in PDF and save the shelf space.

Last I heard(awhile ago), it was a "nominal price" for PDF's if you bought the physical book. Has this changed?
 

Anthraxus said:
Last I heard(awhile ago), it was a "nominal price" for PDF's if you bought the physical book. Has this changed?

There is a little difficulty for WotC to ascertain that you've actually bought the book.
 

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