D&D 5E Any further clarification to Hiding in Player's Handbook?

[Mistwell]

I would agree, if theyd said - its your dms judgment call - but they didnt say that, unfortunately.....

It's cleverly hidden in the sidebar on Hiding, where it says, "However under certain circumstances, the Dungeon Master might..." And then of course we likely will have something in the Dungeon Masters Guide. Which has rules. For Dungeon Masters. To guide them.

 

[Mistwell]

If the rules were embracing the abstract, you wouldn't have at least 4 separate portions of the rules trying to cover stealth-related things. It would be mentioned under Stealth that 'you can use this against Perception to be hidden, provided there's cover for that (ask your GM)', and be done with it.

They did not go that route but tried to codify it.

Well let's test that hypothesis. Look at a rules set that we know was more abstract, and see if it had bits and pieces of the same type of rule all over the place, or just in one place. Best example of abstract rules for D&D? AD&D 1e rules. Rules all over the place or all in one place? Answer - all over the place. So, hypothesis false. If rules are intended to be abstract, being scattered all over the place rather than in one place is not an indicator one way or the other.

And so, then we have arguments around 'the rules say you cannot hide if you can be seen, so the moment you peek from the bushes you're revealed to everyone within a mile' vs 'they only mean hide as taking the hide action, you cannot be seen if you successfully hid already!'

I agree with Variant in this. It's going to take a while to get used to a more abstract, DM-call based rules set. For some, it's been years since we had that, and for others, they've never played a version of the rules that had that kind of focus. Give it some time. It's not just the hide rules that have this abstraction to them - it's a theme of the entire edition. It has advantages and disadvantages. It brings less certainty on how things work, but more freedom to do things not specifically in the rules.

 

[TDarien]

I was active in the other thread and this is my take on it.

• You can only hide from a creature that is unable to see you. This usually means total cover or heavy obscurement unless you have a special ability that lets you hide under different circumstances.
• You can attack while hidden, if you could normally attack from that position.
• If you're hidden behind total cover, you're unable to attack your target without first moving to a position where you can see your target (as total cover works both ways). Peeking around cover is not supported by the rules. This also means that you can also be seen by your target, which would remove the advantage of being hidden.
• In most circumstances, DMs should allow creatures hiding this way to gain advantage on their attacks anyway. A good example of a situation where you wouldn't gain advantage would be if an enemy readied an action to attack when you became visible.
• Creatures that can hide in other circumstances (Wood Elves, Lightfoot Halflings) aren't faced with this restriction because when they hide in those special circumstances are in a situation where they can see their target, but the target cannot see them (because they're hidden), and therefore do not have to move in order to attack.
• Once your discovered, you can hide again in the same position, possibly at disadvantage if your target it being observant.

 

[Uller]

I agree with this... The only way the passive perception score is used is if the enemy is not actively searching for you. the minute he does that passive no longer applies and it becomes a contested roll.

Character A is hiding in some bushes near a trail. Character B moves his speed on his turn and moves to where he might be able to see A. B's player has not yet declared and action but asks if he sees anything. What do you as a DM do? I would just use B's passive perception.

Now let's assume B fails to notice A. B's player anounces he searches the area where A is hiding. Now it's a check. Roll perception and compare to A's stealth check.

So two checks are warranted. Always comparing stealth to the passive perception of any character that can possibly notice a hidden character or item is the simplest way to do it and it just makes sense. If a character is doing something that might make it harder for him to notice hidden things (using a map or talking or something) then I might not allow it or I might give him advantage

 

[Imaro]

Character A is hiding in some bushes near a trail. Character B moves his speed on his turn and moves to where he might be able to see A. B's player has not yet declared and action but asks if he sees anything. What do you as a DM do? I would just use B's passive perception.

Now let's assume B fails to notice A. B's player anounces he searches the area where A is hiding. Now it's a check. Roll perception and compare to A's stealth check.

So two checks are warranted. Always comparing stealth to the passive perception of any character that can possibly notice a hidden character or item is the simplest way to do it and it just makes sense. If a character is doing something that might make it harder for him to notice hidden things (using a map or talking or something) then I might not allow it or I might give him advantage

Yeah... I thought the poster was saying this, that's why I corrected it later in the thread quoting MerricB's post.

 

[Uller]

Yeah... I thought the poster was saying this, that's why I corrected it later in the thread quoting MerricB's post.

I didn't see your correction. Now I do.

I was distracted so it beat my passive perception. But when I searched for it I found it.

 

[Plaguescarred]

PHB177 Hiding: What Can You See? One of the main factors in determining whether you can find a hidden creature or object is how well you can see in an area, which might be lightly or heavily obscured, as explained in chapter 8.

Also this strongly suggest that you can remain hidden while only light obscured, since only heavily obscured blocks vision while lightly obscured still allow anyone to see.

 

[outsider]

Can anyone suggest some good hiding rules from another system, which I cannuse in substitute for the 5e hidden/unseen etc mess..?

How I would have done it:

[houserule]Eliminate the Hidden status, and grant all of it's benefits to Heavily Obscured. A successful Hide check upgrades you from being Lightly Obscured to being Heavily Obscured. 1/2 cover counts as lightly obscured, 3/4s cover counts as heavily obscured.[/houserule]

 

[Imaro]

I didn't see your correction. Now I do.

I was distracted so it beat my passive perception. But when I searched for it I found it.

Lol, yeah I probably should have edited the original post... I was being lazy.

 

[variant]

How I would have done it:

[houserule]Eliminate the Hidden status, and grant all of it's benefits to Heavily Obscured. A successful Hide check upgrades you from being Lightly Obscured to being Heavily Obscured. 1/2 cover counts as lightly obscured, 3/4s cover counts as heavily obscured.[/houserule]

Except 'hidden status' includes both unseen and unheard. Stealth includes both visual and audible aspects to it. I would say disadvantage to stealth checks if you are trying to hide in unfavorable conditions such as being lightly obscured.