Anyone else have problems with the DDI tools?

[kaomera]

So I see a lot of comments about how great / indispensable the Character Builder and Monster Builder are. And I can see the point - calculating all that stuff by hand is a real pain.

I know how much of a pain it is because this weekend, after the game I ran, I went through several characters and a half-dozen monsters generated with these tools, because we'd noticed some problems during the game. Like: One character wasn't actually showing the bonuses from Expertise (handed out as a bonus feat). One character was inexplicably short two hit points. Most monster damages seemed strange; one monster actually gained 2 average damage on it's melee basic after being de-leveled by 5. Defenses on del-leveled monsters seem to all be a point high. One monster's close burst lost any reference to an attack stat or defense targeted.

OK, part of that is just venting. I'm sure somehow, some way I messed most of that up myself (although I can't figure out how I could have in some cases). But it seems like I'm having a hard time (and a lot of work) getting usable results from these programs. I'm having to fool around with stuff to get "bonus" feats and such added on to characters, having to make & print my own cards for seemingly obvious stuff like power-point tracking, feats, and "do something cool" / pg. 42. It's hard to find the feats or monsters I want. And if I find a monster that's perfect for an encounter but it's a few levels too high I can't really just have the program crunch the numbers for me - I have to check stuff like conditions, ongoing damage, etc. (because slowed + ongoing 5 in a blast is not really balanced against a 1st-level party, as I found out the hard way).

And now, just to add to the frustration, it seems like even the number-crunching might not be reliable. The expertise thing and the two lost hit points worry me the most. I managed to fix both by re-creating the characters in question from scratch, but I just have no idea how those errors crept in there. I'm certainly hoping that the monster errors will mostly (or, fingers crossed, completely) be cleared up by the update on the 20th, especially the damage issues if the update includes the new expressions (from the latest errata).

So I guess it's kind of a dumb question, but: what the heck am I doing wrong here? Is there some kind of tutorial for this stuff? I keep thinking that it would be great if an update sometime here made these programs more usable / user-friendly, instead of just cramming in more data...

 

[KarinsDad]

We occasionally see an issue with CB. One should double check their character sheet every time a new one is printed out.

 

[ExploderWizard]

When you speak of "bonus" feats if you mean adding feats to a character beyond what they are entitled to per the rules don't expect the program to actually take that into account for calculation purposes.

 

[kaomera]

When you speak of "bonus" feats if you mean adding feats to a character beyond what they are entitled to per the rules don't expect the program to actually take that into account for calculation purposes.

I've done this dozens of times now - it's been a standard house rule in games I've played in and those I've run. I use the houserule "button" to add a "user choice" feat. Every other time I've done this it calculates correctly, even when I re-did the character from scratch. It was showing up as a feat (versatile expertise) on the character sheet, and the options chosen (heavy blade / light blade) where showing up under "Class / Path / Destiny Features". (And that was the first thing I checked - it would have been easy to have missed making those choices, since they're in a separate section of the CB.)

It's frustrating, but at least it seems like I can catch this in the future by looking in the "feat" column of the attack workspace on the first page of the character sheet. It just bugs me that I have to double-check every bit of math. That was kind of the whole point of the CB, for me.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Like: One character wasn't actually showing the bonuses from Expertise (handed out as a bonus feat). One character was inexplicably short two hit points.

If these are repeatable problems, log a bug. The shortness of two hps seems very odd though and definitely should be repeatable.

...after being de-leveled by 5.

Okay, there's your problem. When you modify the level, you need to recheck the numbers. Unless a monster is created with all standard values (unusual), then it's possible to screw them up, especially with large changes. Changing the level (I think) simply raises/increases all the modifiers across the board. I've seen some screwing things, too, so I just do a quick double check and many times simply click the "reset" buttons for wacky values.

I'm having to fool around with stuff to get "bonus" feats and such added on to characters, having to make & print my own cards for seemingly obvious stuff like power-point tracking, feats, and "do something cool" / pg. 42.

Can you explain what you mean? What is power-point tracking? What is "do something cool" with regards to character creation? Quite honestly, though, I would much rather have zero support for houserules and instead add more tools or work on stability for the current ones. That's me, though, and I just make the comment to point out that different customers have wildly different expectations and desires. For example, a feature I would like is a DM's option for the CB that let's me group multiple characters' stat/skill blocks and print them all out on one page. Or, how about an encounter builder? Mapping tool?

It's hard to find the feats or monsters I want.

But, the ability to search monsters AND powers is pure gold. Making a monster from scratch is now very easy and enjoyable. Just find a monster "close enough" and then tweak his abilities and powers. Search the DB of powers with a keyword or 3 and then you'll have lots of cool options. Drag and drop the powers? Awesome. It seems like an obvious interface now, and makes me wonder why no one has done this for previous editions.

 

[mudbunny]

Most monster damages seemed strange; one monster actually gained 2 average damage on it's melee basic after being de-leveled by 5. Defenses on del-leveled monsters seem to all be a point high. One monster's close burst lost any reference to an attack stat or defense targeted.

The math goes wonky if you change a monsters level by more than 5. Your are better off picking a new monster and reskinning it if you are doing that large of a level change.

But i second the suggestion that you fill a bug report and send it in.

 

[Shag]

I seem to remember the human feat that gives you +1 to all saves doesn't work.
And also superior implements doesn't seem to have its bonus added to all spells even if they all have the 'implement' keyword.

That's just 2 problems I remember.

 

[Shin Okada]

My biggest problem on the DDI tools is that only the Compendium is a web application and others are Windows only. I am a Macintosh user

 

[Prestidigitalis]

My biggest problem on the DDI tools is that only the Compendium is a web application and others are Windows only. I am a Macintosh user

I'm glad someone else went there first. I am an iPhone developer and therefore use a Mac as my primary platform. I have never been happier than when I left Windows PCs behind -- except that I haven't, because periodically I have to crank up my old PC, watch it build up a head of steam, cancel 38 messages about security updates and missing anti-virus software, open Character Builder, and then slowly click my way through an ill-conceived and incredibly sluggish user interface. When I'm done, because my PC does not play well with my printer, I have to go through many additional painful steps in order to print out my damn character sheets (copy character to USB drive, hook laptop directly to printer, boot laptop, copy character to the laptop, open CB, open character, print character, exit CB, exit Windows, shut down laptop, meditate for one hour to reclaim my calm.)

Short of making a Mac version, which I know will never happen, there are a few things they could do that would make Character Builder a lot better.

1. Cache some of the data locally if it isn't already being cached. There is no way it should take so long to load and update in response to user actions.
2. Improve the list UI, especially in the Shop page.
3. Fix the window scaling and positioning. CB is almost completely unusable on my small laptop because lists get scrunched down to the point that only a fraction of a single list item is visible.
4. Most importantly: EXPORT THE CHARACTER SHEET TO PDF so I can print it from my Mac.

I know I'm being harsh, but let me put it this way: I would pay $100 for a Mac version of the Character Builder, if it meant that I never had to run it on my Windows PC again.

 

[Lord Ernie]

During some experimenting with monster levels, I too have seen some problems with the numbers. I seem to remember getting a couple of monsters with multiple millions of HP after lowering them a few levels (less than 5, if you're wondering).

Note that you can check the bonuses/penalties on your powers in the 'powers' section of the CB. When you click on a specific power, it will show the calculations for that power.

Oh, and not to turn this in yet another Windows vs. Mac thread, but Prestidigitalis, ever tried using a windows emulator of some kind? A mate of mine is also a fervent Mac user, and he seems to be able to run the CB on his Macbook just fine.

4. Most importantly: EXPORT THE CHARACTER SHEET TO PDF so I can print it from my Mac.

Have you tried using a PDF printer on your windows PC? It basically does this for you, taking all the data that's sent to the printer to be printed, and converting it into a PDF. CutePDF is one of these. Not perfect, but it performs quite well.