Anyone know a good alternate Paladin?

Well in our campaign rangers and paladins are non-spellcasting (in fact only clerics and druids cast divine spells and wizards and sorcerers cast arcane spells).

For the paladin, I replaced the spellcasting ability with the following:

7th level - Divine resolve: gains the Iron Will feat, as a bonus feat.

11th/14th/17th/20th level - Divine protection: a bonus to AC; +1 at 11th level with an additional +1 per 3 levels thereafter.

This version of the paladin does not get the paladin's warhorse.
 

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Good lord, Erekose... you really killed the paladin. You're removed a 4th level ability (spellcasting) and a 5th level ability (warhorse), and replaced them with a 7th level ability (crappy feat increasing the saves of a class that already has decent saves), and then give them a tiny bit of AC in the last 10 levels, where paladins are falling exponentially behind.

Sorry to crap on your class, but... paladins are pretty underpowered as they are, and you seem to have nerfed them even more.

Hellhound - I like the idea, but the Diablo II Paladin is not really what I'm going for. I'll write something up and post it, and see what you guys think.

I can post the basics now -

HP, BAB, Saves, skills, skillpoints - same
Divine Grace - same
Alignment - no restriction, but see below

Lay on hands - if good, same, if evil, does same amount in damage instead (will save for half, DC = 1/2 paladin level + charisma modifier), if neutral, may choose

Detect alignment at will (when you get this ability, choose an alignment opposite one of your own, if you are true neutral, choose any one).

I'm probably going to drop the warhorse and turn undead altogether. Turn undead seems too clericy, and the warhorse too specialized.

-The Souljourner
 

Paladin

Just a recommendation, but if you get a chance to pick up the "Arcana Evolved" book, they have some classes that resemble a Paladin, but do some really neat stuff while forgoing the spell casting and making no mention of the warhorse. great book in my opinion and it may have a bit of what you are looking for - specifically, check out the "champions of Light".

Hope it helps,
Harper
 


My book, Unorthodox Paladins is coming out next Friday July 1st (pdf format). It contains 6 new Paladin classes, all 1st-20th level.

One full class, the Fist of God, is available in the demo, which you
can find here.

Hope you can find a use for it.

~Le
 

If you are still going to go the House Rules approach, what areas would you be thinking of focusing on?

I might (or might not! :)) be able to offer some worthwhile suggestions, if I knew the role(s) you see paladins taking on the whole, and specifically if there are spectacular actions that you visualise them being capable of (and of course excelling at, hopefully).

But I guess I can list a few simple things, with a view to avoiding such ground as spells, turning, warhorses, and other abilities you clearly might not be interested in.

Do any of these, or similar things, appeal. . .


Some kind of innate (or on-call) resistances/resilience? e.g. energy resistances, SR, DR. . .

An affinity with - and ability to imbue with qualities - a specific type of weapon? Or simply the ability to imbue any weapon with qualities? e.g. good-aligned, holy, keen, cold iron, silvered, adamantine, vorpal. . . (?)

Appropriate spell-like abilities x/day and/or at will? e.g. Daylight, maybe some of the spells from the Good Domain. . . (?)

Channeling a higher power of some kind (deity/angel/other)? - perhaps with exhaustion/drain/other factors after?

Transforming into 'increasingly celestial' forms with capacities to match, a certain number of times per day/week/whatever? Or maybe transforming steadily and permanently, perhaps towards something like the Ascension/Enlightenment/etc. state featured in other classes?

Bonus feats? - a la Fighters and PsyWars, but yeah, Paladin-ish. . . :\ OK, this one's a no-brainer, but I did say simple.

Emphasising and augmenting the (arguably) traditional leadership qualities of the paladin? - well, there's the feat, but I don't know. Maybe bonuses to skill rolls 'n such when leading, bonuses to others' attack rolls and so forth when being inspired/led by the paladin (?) I dunno, haven't thought about this one.

Truthsense?

Creating auras of power/resistance/repulsion/etc. that can surround a group (centred on the Paladin)?


Just stuff blurted out in one go, but yeah like I said, it'd be handy to know which way you'd like to take them.
 

There are some spells (I can't recall from where right now) called (and I may have the name wrong) *Blank* Aspect of the Deity. I think those would be interesting abilities to give this "Paladin" in a progressive format.

To go with the always on aura like ability that can be switched, how about this....
They always have an aura of some type (probably alignment based). Whenever you use any of you "Divine Channeling" type abilities, you manifest a second aura (or simply a different aura) for a number of rounds equal to your charisma score.

And by Divine Channeling I mean use any of your abilities, including Lay on Hands. Have other stuff that can be done as well. I would suggest either do something similar to the Bardic Music ability (with more uses) and have it based off Wis checks instead of skill checks. If you fail, don't lose the ability/effect, just are simply stunned/dazed/exhausted after doing it, as channeling this divine energy is hard.

I would lump all the Remove disease and paralysis type effects into the Divine Channeling category, which is one reason I would give more uses of it than compared to Bardic Music.

Have a pool of auras that the Paladin can choose from, similar to the Marshal, but more aimed towards this Paladin. At higher levels, allow a second aura to be always on (and manifest a third after channeling divine energy). I would even see about turning Divine Grace into an usra at a much higher level.

Well, that is all I have right now, I will see about posting an actual progression here soon.
 

The Souljourner said:
Hellhound - I like the idea, but the Diablo II Paladin is not really what I'm going for.

I totally understand that - it's also not the paladin that I'm looking for either - just one I wrote up years ago.
 

Here's one that I created. Everything else is the same.

Level Special
6th Choose Divine Tree; Divine Power 1; 1/week
7th Bonus Feat
8th Exceptional Mount or Special Mount improves
9th Divine Ability
10th Smite Evil 3/day; Divine Power 2; 2/week
11th (Mount improves)
12th Divine Power 3; 3/week
13th Leadership
14th Divine Power 4; 4/week
15th Smite Evil 4/day; (Mount improves)
16th Dispelling Strike
17th Divine Power 5; 5/week
18th Divine Ability II
19th Sympathetic Bond
20th Smite Evil 5/day

Animal Companion: To the extent that it is advantageous to do so, a multi-class character may add his Paladin levels minus 3 to his Ranger or Druid levels for determining an Animal Companion, provided that the companion is a mount of some sort.
The reverse is also true. A Ranger may add ½ his Ranger levels to the Paladin levels for purposes of determining the Paladin’s Special Mount. A Druid adds all of his Druid Levels.
The Paladin may choose to have a mount and an animal companion, but may not stack levels when doing so.
Example, a Druid 10/Paladin 10 could have a 20th Level Paladin mount or a 17th level Druid animal companion( if that companion is a mount) or a 10th Level Druid animal companion and a 10th level Paladin mount.

Favored Weapon: The Paladin is treated as a Fighter of 3 levels lower for the purposes of acquiring feats such as Specialization (7th Level) and Greater Weapon Specialization (15th Level), but only in his patron deity's favored weapon. If the Paladin also has Fighter levels, these levels stack.
If the campaign world uses variant rules for worship, the favored weapon is determined according to those rules, or at the DM's discretion.

Turn Undead: Should the Paladin multi-class with Cleric, or any other class which turns undead, add the Paladin’s effective turning level to these levels when making Turn checks. However, the Paladin does not gain extra Turning attempts per day—use the greatest number of attempts granted among each of the classes.
Example, a Paladin 6/Cleric 6 would turn as a 9th level cleric, since the Paladin is effectively 3rd level, but would only have 3 attempts per day (+ CHA modifier).

Caster Level: The caster level for all special abilities (see below) is equal to the character's Paladin class level.

Divine Power (Sp): At 6th Level, the Paladin chooses one of the Divine Power trees listed below. She gains the powers listed for that tree, usable 1/week plus her WIS modifier (minimum 1). Each time the chart indicates 1 spell of a new spell level (and at Level 17), the Paladin also gains access to the next ability on the tree. When new abilities are gained, the total usage increases by 1 additional time per week.
Example, at 17th Level, the Paladin has all Divine Powers in the Healing tree; 5 times per week ( plus his WIS modifier) he may use any of those 11 powers.
The DC of all Divine Powers and abilities is 10 + the level of the ability, plus WIS modifier. Calm Emotions and Zone of Truth would have a DC of 12 + WIS modifier.

Healing Divine Powers
1) Delay Poison, Remove Disease, Remove Fear
2) Remove Paralysis, Restoration (Lesser)
3) Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse
4) Freedom of Movement, Neutralize Poison
5) Break Enchantment, Restoration

Battle Divine Powers
1) Protection from Evil
2) Calm Emotions
3) Prayer
4) Death Ward
5) Dispel Evil

Revelation Divine Powers
1) Detect Undead
2) Zone of Truth
3) Invisibility Purge
4) Discern Lies
5) True Seeing

Bonus Feat: At 7th Level, the Paladin may select one bonus feat from the following list. He/she must meet the prerequisites for the feat, if any.
Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes
Weapon Focus (Deity's Favored Weapon only), Weapon Specialization (Deity's Favored Weapon only).
Mounted Combat, Ride by Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample.

Exceptional Mount (Sp): If the Paladin desires, he may summon a monstrous mount rather than a warhorse. The Paladin need not make this selection at 8th level, but once selected, the choice is permanent, and this creature type becomes the Paladin's mount, rather than a heavy warhorse, warpony, et. al.
The mount must be a creature for which rules are provided for training or being used as a mount; Pegasus, Unicorn, Giant Owl, Giant Eagle, Gryphon, Giant Lizards and Dinosaurs are all examples. Other monsters are available only with the DM's consent. The player must meet the prerequisites to having the creature as a mount; e.g., for a Unicorn, the Paladin must be a Human or Elf female. The creature to be selected must be at least one size larger than the PC.
The creature's base alignment must be Always or Usually L/G, or Usually L/N, N/G, N/N, or C/G; it becomes L/G when it becomes the Paladin's mount. For example, a creature whose alignment is “Always C/G” is unsuitable as an exceptional mount, while one whose alignment reads “Usually C/G” would be allowed.
The creature to be summoned must be CR 3 (or less). If the Paladin wants a higher CR mount, he must wait until the appropriate level [see chart below]. The DM may, of course, create a lower or higher CR version of any creature for the Paladin, but is under no obligation to do so.
The creature must have 2 fewer HD than the equivalent Paladin warhorse for that level. Similar limitations apply to INT, as well as AC and STR adjustments. It is as though the Paladin were sacrificing one line of the Special Mount chart in exchange for an Exceptional Mount.
The Exceptional Mount begins with a minimum of 6 INT. If the creature has a greater INT than that listed, use the creature's normal INT instead. In all cases, the creature has a maximum INT of one less than that of the Paladin, regardless of the creature's base INT.
An Exceptional Mount uses the same rules on page 45 of the PHB for BAB and saving throws, but treat the Paladin as 2 levels lower.
The Exceptional Mount increases in power at the same Paladin levels as a Special Mount.
(See the chart below.)

Divine Ability: At 9th Level, the Paladin gains an inherent special ability based upon the Divine Power tree she chose at 6th Level.
Divine Ability (Healing) (Sp): Status, as the spell except: 30' radius centered on self, works on Good creatures only. Usable at will.
Divine Ability (Battle) (Ex): The Paladin is treated as being under the effects of Endure Elements at all times.
Divine Ability (Revelation) (Sp): Detect Chaos (Sp), as the spell. Usable at will.

Leadership: If the Paladin already has Leadership, she gains another Bonus Feat instead. At the DM's option, the player must choose a Bonus Feat. This is usually due to constraints of the campaign, etc.

Dispelling Strike (Su): At 16th level, the Paladin’s Smite attack may disrupt spells affecting the target.
On a succesful smite (the attack must hit and the target must be evil), do damage as usual, but proceed as though the Paladin had also cast Dispel Magic on the target creature or object. Add the Paladin's CHA modifier as a holy bonus to any roll to dispel a spell, spell effect, or spell-like ability with the Evil descriptor.

Divine Ability II: At 18th Level, the Paladin gains an additional inherent special ability.
Divine Ability II (Healing): All Paladin spells may be spontaneously cast as Cure spells of the same level (this does not include Heal Mount). The Paladin may sacrifice a usage of his Divine Power to cast Cure Critical Wounds.
Divine Ability II (Battle) (Sp): Bless, as the spell, at will.
Divine Ability II (Revelation) (Sp): Daylight, as the spell, at will. May only be active on one object at a time. This Daylight is considered to be full sunlight, and may harm vampires and the like.

Sympathetic Bond (Su): At 19th level, the bond between the Paladin and his mount has grown so strong that they share a physical as well as an empathetic link.
Once the damage for an attack has been determined, it may be re-assigned from the Paladin to his mount, or vice versa. This ability takes effect after all Saves, Spell Resistance, Feats, personal magic items, Spell Effects, etc. have been applied by the original target. Once the damage is assigned, no new abilities, spells, or effects may be used to counteract this damage.
Example 1, A Paladin's warhorse suffers 17 points of damage, which he re-assigns to himself. The Paladin has damage reduction 2/-, but he still takes the full 17 HP of damage.
Example 2, The Paladin takes 25 HP of damage from a Lightning Bolt, which he instead decides to assign to his mount. He may not now try to use Mounted Combat or the mount's Improved Evasion to avoid the damage.
100% of the damage must be re-assigned, it may not be divided. This must be done on an individual basis with each attack, spell, effect, or source. A Paladin and mount suffering damage from the same fireball may assign all of the damage to one or the other, if desired.
Any secondary effects from the damage which have affected the original target are also transferred, such as paralysis, ability damage, level drain, etc., except that a Paladin may not gain disease in this manner.
If the Paladin is unconscious or otherwise completely stripped of his mental faculties, he loses access to this ability, and damage is taken as usual.
While summoned, the mount gains the Fast Healing feat. If either the Paladin or his mount are the subject of a Heal spell and the bond is active, both are treated as targets of the spell. Likewise, if either the Paladin or his mount receive healing in excess of their maximum HP, the additional "lost" healing may be transferred to the other through the bond. Touch spells with a "harmless" saving throw may be re-directed to either the mount or the Paladin using the bond, at the Paladin's discretion.
A Paladin selfishly re-assigning his own damage to his mount violates his Code of Conduct. The general guideline is that damage should be re-assigned such that the Paladin and the mount’s HP remain roughly equal. Special situations may be adjudicated by the DM, as necessary.
The Mount must be within 1 mile for this ability to function. If the Paladin ever loses his mount, this ability takes 30 days to develop after obtaining a new mount (or a dead mount is reviveed).

Exceptional Mount Advancement
Paladin
8th–10th +2 HD* (6d8 HD Max**) 3 CR Max*** +4 AC (18 AC Max) +1 STR 6 INT Special: Empathic link, improved evasion, share spells, share saving throws

11th–14th +4 HD (8d8 HD Max) 4 CR Max +6 AC (20 AC Max) +2 STR 7 INT Special: Improved speed

15th–20th +6 *10d8 HD Max) 5 CR Max +8 AC (22 AC Max) +3 STR 8 INT Special: Command creatures of its kind

* Add HD and/or AC only up to the maximum allowed for this level.
Example, a Griffon (CR 4) may be chosen as a mount at 11th level. The Griffon has 7 HD and 17 AC, so only 1 HD and 1 AC may be added, giving the Griffon mount 8 HD and an 18 AC until 15th level..

** After all adjustments. Do not differentiate based on actual die to be rolled (d8, d12, etc) or CON score or Toughness. The DM may take into account negative CON adjustments or poor HD (less than d8).

*** “Book” CR as listed in the MM or other resource. I.e., do not include the companion bonuses into the monster’s CR.
 

here's one i crafted not too long ago - be forewarned that it is yet to be play-tested and in my setting to be a paladin (or templar in my case) requires a few pre-requisiutes as opposed to a slew of presumptions, hence it is one of a few select prestige classes available for PCs...it does away with the pointless need for a special mount (IMO) and spells (for crying out loud lets leave spell casting to those who are specifically trained to do so, and its not exactly a talent like swimming that any john doe can pick up) feel free to use it for your purposes:


The Templar:

HD: d10

Pre-Requisites

§ Alignment: Lawful Good / Lawful Neutral
§ Minimum Str 14, Chr 14 & Wis 14
§ Patron Deity: Any Deity of Law / Righteous Justice / Truth
§ Base Will Save: +5
§ Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 5 Ranks, Knowledge (Military) 5 Ranks, Diplomacy 5 Ranks
§ Feats: Weapon Focus & Iron Will


Lev BAB Fort Ref Will Special Abilities
1 +1 +2 +0 +0 Detect Undead, Detect Evil, Turn Undead, Lay on Hands
2 +2 +3 +0 +1 Divine Grace
3 +3 +3 +1 +1 Aura of Courage
4 +4 +4 +1 +2 Smite Undead
5 +5 +4 +1 +2 Blessed Weapon
6 +6 +5 +2 +3 Blessed Fortitude
7 +7 +5 +2 +3 Divine Might
8 +8 +6 +2 +4 Holy Sword
9 +9 +6 +3 +4 Divine Retribution
10 +10 +7 +3 +5 Divine Justice


Class Skills: Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge, Profession, Ride, & Sense Motive.

Skill Points : 2 + Int Modifier

Class Features

§ Detect Undead: At will, a Templar is able to use this spell like ability as described under the spell. Caster level is equal to his Templar level or the minimum level required whichever is lower. This requires 1 action to engage and concentrate.

§ Detect Evil: At will, a Templar is able to use this spell like innate ability as described under the spell. Caster level is equal to his Templar level or the minimum level required whichever is lower.

§ Divine Grace: As a champion of the powers of Light, a Templar is blessed such that he is able to add his Chr modifier (if positive) as a divine / blessed bonus to all his Saves.

§ Turn Undead: A Templar can turn undead and is able to do this a number of times equal to 2 plus his Chr modifier. The Templar does this as a Priest equal to his Templar level.

§ Smite Undead: Once per day, a Templar is able to smite an undead with anyone of his chosen attacks. In doing so he adds his Wis modifier (if positive) to his Attack Roll and he inflicts 1 additional point of damage for each Templar level he possesses.

§ Blessed Weapon: Any melee weapon employed by the Templar is automatically imbued with a blessing and is regarded as Good Aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

§ Aura of Courage: A Templar acquiring this is immune to all effects of Fear, natural or unnatural. All allies within 10ft of a Templar receive +5 to their saves vs Fear effects.

§ Lay on Hands: A Templar is able to seek divine blessings to heal the wounds of the flesh once per day. His capacity to bestow the healing touch increases as he advances as a Templar. Once per day a Templar is able to heal [Templar Lev x Wis Modifier] HP.

§ Blessed Fortitude: Blessed and protected by the divine powers, a Templar receives a +4 bonus to his saves against spells with Necromantic essence and against Negative Level Drain.

§ Divine Might: The Templar can use up a Standard Action to call forth H’s blessings so as to be empowered such that either his Str, Wis or Chr is improved by 4 for 10 rounds. Usable Once per Day.

§ Holy Sword: The Templar is able to use the Holy Sword ability once per day, as per spell, at a caster level equal to the Templar Level.

§ Divine Retribution: In his perpetual service to the tenets of divine justice, a Templar is imbued with the ability to channel positive energies to execute justice in His name. This can be carried out in melee combat against undead and any evil aligned target. Channelling away one Turn Undead attempt for that day he deals an additional 2d6 dmg as a positive energy burst from the melee weapon employed for each attack in one round. He can do this for as many Turn Undead attempts he wishes to use in this fashion for that day.

§ Divine Justice: Consuming the positive energies for two Turn Undead attempts for that day, a Templar is able to release a devastating burst of positive energies that inflicts 1d6 dmg per Templar Lev (i.e. 10d6) to all undeads and evil aligned targets within a 60ft radius. Targets are permitted a Ref Save vs DC 10 + Templar’s Wis Modifier for half dmg. The Templar needs to make a Fort save vs DC 20 to ensure that he is not physically stunned (1 Round) by the sudden release of so much positive energies from his being.
 

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