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D&D 4E Anyone know a Pro-4e site?

Kzach

Banned
Banned
Darkwolf71 said:
What's wrong with honest discussion?
The problem I have with naysayers isn't 'honest discussion' it's the blinkered and uninformed and argumentative nature of the posters.

The amount of times I've seen someone say something bad about 4e based on incorrect, misinterpreted, or partial information frustrates and annoys me.

There are many people who I see hating on 4e not because of any logical, rational or reasonable explanation, but rather just because it's new and they've decided to be against it. I see a lot of negative rationalisation going on to support personal bias.

I'm about as positive as one can get when it comes to this new edition, but at the same time, I don't believe I'm being irrational in my responses to information that is presented. I believe I take each tidbit and examine it without bias. Some things I like, some things I don't. But ultimately, even I haven't decided whether I like the edition or not, simply because it hasn't even been released yet.

Any other stance other than open-mindedness is not only premature, but ridiculous.
 

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frankthedm

First Post
EricNoah said:
I also think that once the game is out there will be less of a problem -- particularly if Russ re-arranges and adds some forums (a 4E section with a rules subforum, for example).
I assumed 4e was going to take over the rules and general forums after release, regulating 3e to the d20 forum or it's own sub forum.
 
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Transit

First Post
Kzach said:
I don't believe I'm being irrational in my responses to information that is presented. I believe I take each tidbit and examine it without bias.

I'm sure that the people that you call "blinkered and uninformed and argumentative" feel the same way. And I'm sure you'd find it strange if one of them was requesting a site where no one was allowed to say anything good about 4E.
 

Wormwood

Adventurer
EricNoah said:
I also think that once the game is out there will be less of a problem -- particularly if Russ re-arranges and adds some forums (a 4E section with a rules subforum, for example).
Definitely.

Although I expect those first few weeks to be glorious.
 

frankthedm said:
I assumed 4e was going to take over the rules and general forums after release, regulating 3e to the d20 forum or it's own sub forum.
I hope that we will have - at least for as long as either forum is sustained by posters willing to post, argue, discuss, interpret and so on - a rules form for both editions.
I am not sure if the General Forums also need this divide, since a lot of stuff isn't limited to a specific game system.
 

Cadfan

First Post
I never saw the reason for a "general" rules forum when it takes no effort to designate by edition, and there's not a lot a 2e rules discussion contributes to a 3e rules discussion.
 


Darkwolf71

First Post
Carnivorous_Bean said:
So every thread has to be a venue for a knock-down, drag-out argument about "verisimilitude" that neither side can win? :\
You see, this is exactly the real issue. I said 'civil discussion by both sides'. Appearantly what you read was 'knock-down, drag-out arguments that can be won or lost'.

Not. Even. Close, to being the same thing.
 

Stormtower

First Post
I think ENWorld has the most well-informed and balanced discussions across editions of any site I've come across. I'm not the heaviest of posters - far from it - but my browsing and occasional posting on ENWorld has increased my DM-fu significantly, granting insights that I could not have otherwise easily gleaned. This site's balance of views and opinions gives a solid view from multiple sides of any argument. For that reason alone, supporting ENWorld is very much worth it to me.

It's true that there's plenty of tension between supporters of previous editions and 4E supporters... heck, for several months after GenCon I was intensely negative about 4th Edition. However, opinions can change (mine has) and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

4th Edition looks like a fun, streamlined and action-heavy game that focuses on narrative choices and tactical combat. For myself, that's largely how I run 3.5E too. I don't expect 4E to change my DM'ing style that much, since I was already running a hybrid tactical/narrative focused game. But the system does have tons of promise, and it was an absolute blast to play at DDXP.

It's a new game. It's not really like 3.5E, which is a game I adore (and, incidentally, the game that brought me back to tabletop RPGs and out of the PC/MMO oubliette). I have a massive collection of 3.5 books and minis, and I'll be running that edition for years to come because that's what my homebrew players like. But 4th Edition will stand on its own merits and become a useful, playable part of my collection too!

Games change editions just like software these days, and the only way to stay active in organized play is to change with them. Do I love that 4E came about 3 years too early, to my mind? Heck no. I'm still not happy that my investment in 3.5 was effectively rendered obsolete for organized play before I could integrate many of its late-era rules into my working knowledge of the game. I'm not happy that my 3E minis are being "re-imagined" and are therefore pretty useless in 4E games. I don't think WotC has handled the transition as well as they could have, in some cases (the GenCon 4E announcment was particularly tone-deaf to heavily 3.5-invested customers, IMO).

However, I kept an open mind, attended DDXP (lucky to be local in MD/DC, I'll grant) and ended up being pleased with many of the 4E changes in actual play. Had the game not impressed me then, I would have made the choice to become a full-time grognard and retreat back into my basement/gaming room cave with my lovely 3.5 collection and run it forever. I might STILL run 3.5 forever, because I like the game that much. But 4E has tons of promise and it's up to us as gamers to define the situation as we see fit. D&D will only survive as a hobby as long as we support it. By supporting it, we gain some measure of power to decide its destiny.

The game's tabletop culture is ours to define. By recruiting new players (or returning former players to the fold) we have the opportunity to transmit the culture to new generations of players. Supporting WotC's profit motive is secondary to keeping the culture of D&D alive, so all the fine DMs at ENWorld and elsewhere always have players at their tables, and the tradition of face-to-face social gaming continues.

Give me the spirited pro- and anti- discussions of ENWorld over sanitized, segregated communities. Diversity creates strength. Every edition of the game has, and will have, warts and oddities that fail to please us. Above all, supporting the culture of tabletop FRPG gaming should take precedence, and a bit of social tension within that paradigm is necessary for growth and change.

My 2 cp... game on.
 


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