Appropriate Level for a Leader of 3,000 Cavalry

Gregor said:
The FRCS lists the riders as about 3,000 strong (If I remember correctly). What level should the commander be (im looking at him being either a paladin or a fighter)?

Let's see. According to my interpolations from AD&D 1st Ed. sources, that would be about 12th level. You can see that here: www.superdan.net/demogrph.html

But, FR and 3rd Ed. generally inflate levels, making higher levels less special. By the 3.0 DMG 3,000 warriors would be produced by 60,000 population (warriors 5% of total), which is a Metropolis, which would have 4 Fighters of between level 13 to 20. So under 3rd Ed. it seems likely that they'd support about a 16th-level or higher Fighter leader.

This all assumes the cavalry are basic 1st-level warriors. If they're elites of higher level, then I'd assume this tilts the leader level upwards, too.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Mistdale has a population of 27,807. The current leader of the Riders is an expert 6/Fighter 2. He is an administrator, not a warrior at all.

FRCS, page 133.

However, if these guys went by the DMG rules pertaining to having 3000 fighters (which they don't), then the highest level guy would be 22nd level.

-Frank
 

FrankTrollman said:
However, if these guys went by the DMG rules pertaining to having 3000 fighters (which they don't), then the highest level guy would be 22nd level.

-Frank

Except that you are not using the method presented for determing presence of high-level characters and working down, you are using the formula for generating the anomalous high-level characters to generate the whole army. The section of the DMG that you quote in your first post clearly states that you should generate the leader from the population frequency information, and then work down.
 

Judging from the numbers presented in the Silver Marches sourcebook, where some armies are actually listed with classes and levels of all soldiers given, the bulk of the troops (about one half) will be level 1. The rest will be of higher level, obviously having much fewer individuals of the upper levels compared to the lower ones; there will still be plenty of level 2-3.

From the 700 heavy cavalry in Silverymoon only 10 individuals are level 10+. Since there are 3000 in your force, you might have a few more, like 30-50; then a couple hundred level 2-9 and lots and lots of level 1 (most being simple Warriors).

I'd give the leader level 14~15, I think.

For example:

1x 15
1x 14
3x 13
5x 12
10x 11
20x 10
30x 9
50x 8
70x 7
90x 6
120x 5
150x 4
250x 3
600x 2
1600x 1

Higher levels will be mostly Fighters, some Paladins, few Clerics and Rangers, very few others (depending on what the cavalry is supposed to do, there could be some specialists). Moderate levels have lots of Fighters and Warriors, also some Paladins, Clerics and Rangers and few others. Low levels have mainly Warriors (over 80%), some Fighters and few others.

Bye
Thanee
 

Ya the number 3,000 for the cavalry size was a number I thought they had, simply because I recall reading in the FRCS a line that said that Mistledale's 3,000 riders turned back a 7,000+ strong Zhent force.

I guess you can say I am what Scientists call...."dumb"

Thanks anyway...
 

I'd keep it simple, and do something like the following:

Presume one higher-level rank (i.e. level) for every 20 individuals.

So, for every 20 1st-level fighters, you have a sergeant of 2nd level. For every 20 sergeants, a lieutenant of 3rd level. 20 lieutenants gives you a 4th level captain.

2,800 fighters, Ftr1
140 sergeants, Ftr2
7 lieutenants, Ftr3
1 captain, Ftr4

If you'd prefer a stronger command, increase them, say:

2,800 fighters, Ftr1
140 sergeants, Ftr3
7 lieutenants, Ftr5
1 captain, Ftr10
 

Gregor said:
ok so then do I just personally decide what level the commander should be and then work down from there?

I know I can just arbitrarily determine that level, being the DM, but I was just curious if there was an actual formula that would tell me what the highlest level person would be in a 3,000 strong army.

Any help is appreciated and my thanks for the suggestions thus far,

What I do, for veteran troops:

1/2 are 1st level
1/4 2nd level
1/8 3rd
1/16 4th
etc

For non-veteran troops I use:
3/4 1st
1/8 2nd
1/16 3rd
1/32 4th
etc

So for 3000 veteran troops:
1500 1st
750 2nd
375 3rd
188 4th
94 5th
47 6th
23 7th
12 8th
6 9th
3 10th
1 11th
1 12th

So leader would be 12th level.

If you think that's too low for FR (I don't - some FR armies are much bigger than 3000) you can use

1/2 1st-2nd
1/4 3rd-4th
1/8 5th-6th
etc
This gives a leader around 22nd level as has been said.
 

I'm in the 'whatever level you want' camp.

Unlike 1e, level doesn't mean rank in 3e. I don't know much about FR, but who runs the cavalry? The leader could easily be a political appointee or a noble's sinicure rather than jsut the highest level fighter in the area. And making it a aristocrat lvl 2 is probably more interesting than making it a 22nd level fighter, to my mind at least.

dcollins: that link you posted doesn't work...
 

Bit of Realmslore here: though the high councilor of Mistledale is nominally commander of the Riders (Halesk Malorn, the Exp6/Ftr2), the day-to-day commander is Neylessa Shendean (LG Hu Pal12) (from the Dalelands sourcebook; see also Volo's Guide to the Dalelands. Yes, it's 2E, but I've noticed that in most cases they converted levels directly).

Given Mistledale's population, 3000 Riders seems far too many for a standing force, but it is possible if that's a full muster of the militia. In modern terms that's a brigade or regimental sized force, commanded by a colonel. Given that most of the troops will be Warrriors (esp militia), I'd suggest the following levels for various leaders (using modern tems):

Ftr1/2 -- Squad/File sergeants (4 per platoon)

Ftr4/5 -- Platoon commanders (4 per troop)

Ftr 6/7 -- Troop commanders (4 per squadron)

Ftr 8/9 -- Squadron commanders (2 in regiment)

Ftr 11/12 -- Regimental commander

(Some levels not listed will provide for senior sergeants, or staff assistants to higher level commmanders. Rank only approximately corresponds to level.)

Note that that 3000 probably includes a number of auxiliaries who operate at lower levels -- archers, foot soldiers, supply wains, and that sort of thing. Probably only half that force would be actual cavalry in my estimate.

I'm actually running a campaign set in Mistledale -- it's a great place for campaigning. I have the active force of riders at about 300 strong (the rest of the force is militia). The Riders (capital "R") are the leaders of the cavalry (not the entire force) for which I've created a prestige class, the Rider of Mistledale. I've statted Neylessa Shendean as a Pal9/RoM3 (and she's the highest-level NPC in the area).

The Rider of Mistledale
The Riders of Mistledale are a group of elite horsemen and warriors who serve as the defenders of Mistledale. The Riders serve as the leaders of the militia, training local citizens in self defense and performing police work, as well as performing their own patrols, surveys, and intelligence gathering. The Riders are headquartered in Ashabenford, where their leader Neylessa Shendean sends them on their various missions. Most Riders remain in Mistledale, though others are occasionally encountered on special missions throughout the Heartlands.

A typical patrol consists of one Rider with 8-10 militia members, mounted on horseback, and armed with lances or long spears, light maces, long swords, and short bows. The Rider is usually easily recognized by his black enameled armor which bears the symbol of a white demihorse rampant, the symbol of Mistledale.

Most Riders are fighters, rangers, or paladins, though clerics, wizards, and bards have occasionally aspired to the ranks of the Riders. Barbarians and monks rarely become Riders of Mistledale. Note that it is not necessary to take this prestige class to be a Rider of Mistledale, though most of the leaders of that organization have ranks in this prestige class.

Hit Die: D10

Requirements:
Alignment: Any good or neutral.
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Ride 6 ranks, Knowledge (local): 2 ranks, Survival 2 ranks
Feats: Leadership, Mounted Combat
Special: Be a member of the Riders of Mistledale; have performed a special task or earned great honor in the defense of the dale.

Advancement:

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +1 +2 +0 +0 Rallying cry; Daleslore +1
2 +2 +3 +0 +0 Inspire courage 1/day
3 +3 +3 +1 +1 Track; Daleslore +2
4 +4 +4 +1 +1 Inspire Courage 2/day
5 +5 +4 +1 +1 Final Stand, Daleslore +4

A Rider of Mistledale’s class skills include:
Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Intuit Direction (Wis), Listen (Wis), Jump (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Ride (Dex), Swim (Str), Move Silently (Dex), Knowledge (local)(Int), Spot (Wis), Sense Motive (Cha), Wilderness Lore (Int)

Skill points: 2 + Int bonus per level

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Rider of Mistledale is proficient in light, medium, and heavy armor, shields, and all simple and martial weapons.

Rallying Cry: The Rider can utter a powerful shout (“For the Dales!”) that causes all allies within 60 feet to gain a +1 morale bonus on their next attack roll and increases their speed by 5 feet until the rider’s next turn. This is a mind-affecting ability which may be used three times/day.

Daleslore: The Rider may add the indicated bonus to Knowledge and Wilderness lore checks made within the limits of Mistledale.

Track: Gains the track feat.

Inspire courage: This ability has the same effect as the bard ability of the same name. To be affected, the recipient must hear the rider speak for at least a full round. The effect lasts for 5 rounds after the rider stops speaking, or the ally cannot hear the rider. The ally gains a +2 morale bonus to saves versus charm and fear effects, and a +1 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls during this period.

Final Stand: Once per day, a rider can inspire his troops to a heroic effort, temporarily increasing their vitality. All allies within 10 feet gain 2d10 temporary hit points. This affects a number of creatures equal to the rider’s class level + Charisma modifier for an equivalent number of rounds.

If you're interested, I've attached my campaign notes on the Riders.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

In case it's of any further interest, here's a collection of my campaign notes on a number of the areas in Mistledale that might be of interest to the original poster (or others). The *.zip file includes Word Documents. This is just the background material; the actual adventure material (much of which occurs around/out of Peldan's Helm) is to voluminous to post here (and makes use of a lot of prepublished material.

Check out diaglo's Story Hour if you want to see what's been going on in the campaign.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Remove ads

Top