Arcane Power- Wizards Stretched Thin

[SoulStorm]

Here are the questions I asked customer service regarding Dominant Winds and the response I received:

1) Does the target of the effect have to land at the end of each turn, or can the flight be sustained from round to round?

2) Does the answer to this question change if the target has the ability to hover?

3) Can a double move be used to allow both the sorcerer and an ally to fly dexterity modifier squares?

Any target with a fly speed without a hover speed (or overland flight) must land at the end of each move action.

Yes, you can use two move actions to move both the sorcerer and another target.

Now I need some help decrypting this reply. First of all, doesn't this answer contradict the 2 squares rule to avoid falling without hover?

Taking this answer at face value, does this mean that a Genasi using the Stormrider feat can use Dominant Winds to fly without landing?

Stormrider
Prerequisite: Genasi
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to speed when
you are manifesting windsoul or watersoul. When
flying, you hover.

Thanks

 

[baberg]

Once again, we find that we can't trust WotC's Customer Service to fully grasp the ruleset - even the basics sometimes escape them.

Creatures with a Fly speed can stay aloft as long as they move at least 2 squares each round, which is clearly contradictory to the first answer given by the CS representative. MM p.281

As for the Stormrider feat, I'm going back to my argument that Fly Speed and Flying are two separate things. The Hover keyword only exists as a sub-topic of Fly Speed so if you have no fly speed, hover means nothing.

I think the Stormrider feat should read "While you have a fly speed, you have the hover keyword". But that's using my interpretation that there is a distinct and purposeful difference between "Fly Speed" and "Fly"

 

[Rechan]

New at-will that's sort of the opposite of Tide of Iron for Fighter - instead of moving the target and shifting into that square, you shift and move your target to your previous square

So, Footwork Lure?

 

[SoulStorm]

I've resubmitted the Dominant Winds question to customer service. I also asked:

Does Dominant Winds actually grant a fly speed, or just the ability to fly dex modifier squares with a move action? Is there a difference?

As before, I'll post the response when I get it.

 

[RefinedBean]

So, Footwork Lure?

Footwork Lure with an extra shift, I believe.

Also, it's called a spell, when it's really not. I mean, honestly. It's got the arcane keyword, and nothin' arcane is going on. Kinda lame.

 

[SoulStorm]

Ok, here is the follow up response from WOTC:

Thank you for contacting Wizards of the Coast game support! We're sorry for the confusion. We've looked a bit closer at the ability and here are the answers you seek.

1) Does the target of the effect have to land at the end of each turn, or can the flight be sustained from round to round?
Strictly according to the rules as written, unless the power in question tells you that you crash unless you land, then you do not have to end your movement on the ground. The flying rules state only that you crash at the end of your turn if you did not fly 2 or more squares during that turn. The sorcerer can effectively stay in the air this way without falling as long as he flies at least 2 squares each turn.

2) Does the answer to this question change if the target has the ability to hover?
No, but even if you have Hover, you still have to use the Dominant Winds power to have the ability to fly, even if you don't move.

3) Can a double move be used to allow both the sorcerer and an ally to fly dexterity modifier squares?
It's not a "double move" unless it's one target making both moves. But the sorcerer can use Dominant Winds to move himself, and Dominant Winds a second time to move his ally. It is a good idea for the ally to land at the end of this move because when the ally's turn comes, if they did not land previously, and if they do not otherwise fly two spaces on that next turn, then they will crash at the end of their turn.

 

[yesnomu]

Argh, that is so incredibly wrong. The flight rules are written for creatures with a flight speed! They don't apply here at all! Stupid CustServ.

 

[SoulStorm]

Argh, that is so incredibly wrong. The flight rules are written for creatures with a flight speed! They don't apply here at all! Stupid CustServ.

You seem to be presuming that flying and having a flight speed are two different things, but I'm not aware of any rule that makes such a distinction. Are you aware of such a rule? If so, please point it out to me.

Until then, the ruling by customer service seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Maybe CustServ is correct then that is a broken, fly all day and zap from range power. I'll stick with the must land at the end ruling in my game, if it ever comes up.

 

[Cadfan]

Aargh. Rant time.

This is seriously stupid. I'm filing it with the moronic swordmage versatile weapon hand jive as an obviously unintended consequence of rules written for one purpose being used again for another.

The page 47 fly action rules are clearly written for monsters with a fly speed. So it makes sense to include things like crashing only at the end of your turn. It models momentum. I'm cool with that. If you're flying, and you need to fly two spaces per turn to stay in the air, then you should logically only crash when its no longer possible for you to do that. Ie, at the end of your turn. But this doesn't make sense for creatures that fly as the result of a magical effect.

But now we get to have all kinds of rules glitches while WotC tries to ram these two areas of the rules together.

Look at the fun we can have! Allow your ally (or yourself) to fly X spaces with this power or with Telekinetic Leap or some equivalent power. They choose to end their movement in the air. Ok. That's fine, apparently. Next round, they start their turn in the air. So what happens? They instantly crash? Nope! They're flying! Somehow! Except they have no fly speed! So they can't actually move, because they have no fly speed and their feet aren't on the ground. They're hovering motionless in the air in total defiance of the logic of the power, the description of the power, basic reasoning, and the nearly obvious intent of the designers! And they sit there until the END of their turn, motionless, at which point they plummet.

Way to go. This rule made sense when it modeled momentum issues for a monster generally capable of flying. Not so much for people flown by an effect which terminated in the previous round.

I hate rules glitches.

There are a bunch of powers that now "officially" work weird. I think my favorites are the druid powers that let you transform into a flying animal. Now they let you transform into a bird, fly a bit, then transform into a, I dunno, giant floating rhinoceros or something.

Radiant Charge becomes bizarre. Charge something, flying through the air as you do so, then hover for a round and battle ferociously. Then, like a cartoon coyote suddenly realizing that he left the cliff some ten meters back, plummet with a whistling sound and raise a little *poof* dust cloud when you land.

Come on, WotC. It wouldn't be tough to duck this one, just declare that the page 47 rules apply only up until the moment you no longer have the ability to fly. Its logical, plausible from the reading, and doesn't lead to silly outcomes. And it matches the reasoning in powers that strip enemies of their ability to fly, which generally state that when a creature loses the ability to fly while in the air, it crashes.