Archivist - Cleric help

[Dannyalcatraz]

constancechan's post?

Reported.

 

[concerro]

constancechan's post?

Reported.

I tagged him too.

 

[paqqy]

If you really want the domain powers which may not do much good in the end I would go archivist/cloistered cleric, but I think going Archivist 20 is more powerful.

I totally agree with you. I normally prefer to take a class to its full progression.

In this situation, it's less about wanting the domain powers and more about minimizing the setbacks of losing a level to backstory elements. I figure that if I'm going to lose a level, I may as well get something out of it, especially good if it's not something that's level-dependent. The domain abilities seemed to be my best bet and the extra skill points at 1st level could be pretty helpful in terms of keeping my various knowledge skills maxed out. The ability to inspire allies (Nobility) for a few rounds and the bonuses to the bluff/diplo/sense motive (Mind) seem to be the best I can do that go with this character.

Perhaps I should stop trying to justify the level of cloistered cleric and just try to work around the backstory element. Perhaps my PC did absolutely nothing for the first 40+ years of his life (the amount of time before the story element that led to the Archivist training)... at least that makes my choices much simpler!

 

[Herobizkit]

Why do you have to have an "adventuring" level in your backstory? It's more plausible that your character lived a simple NPC life before taking on the mantle of adventuring.

You said it yourself; your party already has a cleric. While domain powers are nifty, they're not essential to your character.

That said, Cloistered Cleric offers more than domains. Bardic Lore, Decipher Script and Speak Language skills, and more skill points (as you pointed out). If anything, I would play a Cloistered Cleric instead of an archivist, and work towards the Contemplative PrC in CompDiv. You get two BONUS domains for doing so.

And hey, two levels of monk certainly would help your offensive and defensive abilty by granting a boost to all saves, evasion, and Flurry of Blows. Three levels would give you a +2 save vs enchantments, negate your FoB penalty, and add 10 feet to your movement. Remember: your character is designed around Knowledge, so high level spells aren't necessarily your focus.

Backstory: Zen Monk who chooses to pursue knowlege over martial training.

 

[paqqy]

Why do you have to have an "adventuring" level in your backstory? It's more plausible that your character lived a simple NPC life before taking on the mantle of adventuring.

Long story... It's the DMs way of incorporating me into his campaign.

This much is from the DM: My character is the grandchild of famous clerics. In his adulthood, my character was saved from a pesky situation by the government (think a fantasy version of the FBI/CIA/X-Files/MiB). He was deemed to be a talented addition and given the decision to have his mind erased (a la Men-in-Black) or work for them in their archives.

My character's role in the archives was left up to me, but the Archivist fits in perfectly.

My character's age (40+) and his rescue would make it more plausible that he would have a level before starting this archivist job.

That said, Cloistered Cleric offers more than domains. Bardic Lore, Decipher Script and Speak Language skills, and more skill points (as you pointed out). If anything, I would play a Cloistered Cleric instead of an archivist, and work towards the Contemplative PrC in CompDiv. You get two BONUS domains for doing so.

The Cloistered Cleric all the way through seems kinda.... yuck... Even with the Contemplative Prc... I've always disliked the Contemplative. I feel like it's only good for the domains and makes an otherwise weak cleric. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing.

And hey, two levels of monk certainly would help your offensive and defensive abilty by granting a boost to all saves, evasion, and Flurry of Blows. Three levels would give you a +2 save vs enchantments, negate your FoB penalty, and add 10 feet to your movement.

Not to mention adding some useful skills as class skills... though those are points that I would want to add to Knowledge, rather than Escape Artist or Tumble!

Remember: your character is designed around Knowledge, so high level spells aren't necessarily your focus.

I think that half true. What makes the class unique is the Dark Knowledge, the archivist sucks at melee and is a full caster. While it might not be crucial to get to those higher level spells, it might be more crucial to get to my lower levels of spellcasting sooner rather than 2 or 3 levels later.

Also, when delay the archivist's spellcasting you also delay the Dark Knowledge abilities. Waiting til 7th or 8th level for a party buff that you should be granting at 5 (or 6 with 1 backstory level) seems to be less-than-optimal to the party too.

But I could be wrong...

Blah. Char creation is hard. :-(

 

[Herobizkit]

[...] My character's age (40+) and his rescue would make it more plausible that he would have a level before starting this archivist job.

I think I understand... will you be describing your level increases as the unlocking of repressed memories?

The Cloistered Cleric all the way through seems kinda.... yuck...

It really is a matter of taste. If the only reason you're playing an Archivist is for the buffs, then yeah, go all Archivist and pretend you never saw the CC. If you're allowed to build your character starting at a higher level, take your level of CC and build away. The CC and Archivist do work well together, and you can cast those juicy domain spells that you can't normally learn as an Archivist.

[...] Not to mention adding some useful skills as class skills, though those are points that I would want to add to Knowledge...

Monks get (4+int) skill points per level, same as the Archvist. They get access to Know/Arcana and Religion as class skills, as well as potentially useful skills such as Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Listen, and Spot.

The hardest part of character creation in 3.x is the pre-planning. You won't really know how effective your build will be until you actually play it. :/

If you're going multi-class, accept that you're not going to max out any of your abilities. If you're starting at 1st level, it's usually best to pick the class with the most skill points as your starting level.

 

[paqqy]

I think I understand... will you be describing your level increases as the unlocking of repressed memories?

I'm not sure what you mean by level increase...

But my character chose to work for the organization instead of getting his brain wiped. So if he had any class levels before being given this option, those levels stick around. And the archivist levels would start from that point on.

If the only reason you're playing an Archivist is for the buffs, then yeah, go all Archivist and pretend you never saw the CC.

Pretty much, my character's role is to buff the party and pass all those knowledge checks that come up. The ability to Inspire Allies from the Nobility domain looks nice cus it would stack with my Dark Knowledge buffs, but I'm not sure losing a level of archivist to the Cloistered cleric is worth that ability.

If you're allowed to build your character starting at a higher level, take your level of CC and build away.

How high? We're starting at 3. My character might be introduced in the second session rather than the first, so I may start as 4.

The CC and Archivist do work well together, and you can cast those juicy domain spells that you can't normally learn as an Archivist.

Cannot cast them as domain spells, but can argue for writing them down... assuming I only get domain spell slots corresponding to cleric levels.

The hardest part of character creation in 3.x is the pre-planning. You won't really know how effective your build will be until you actually play it. :/

Don't I know it... sigh

 

[Herobizkit]

The ability to Inspire Allies from the Nobility domain looks nice cus it would stack with my Dark Knowledge buffs, but I'm not sure losing a level of archivist to the Cloistered cleric is worth that ability.

It really is, given that you don't have to PLAY through that level. I love the CC concept in general - it's everything I felt priests SHOULD have been.

How high? We're starting at 3. My character might be introduced in the second session rather than the first, so I may start as 4.

That said, if you start at level 4, I would likely go 3 levels of CC, then your first level of Archivist. This unlocks your 2nd level spells and domain spells, and who doesn't want Cure Moderate Wounds?

The reasoning behind this is personal. When I make a character, I generally assume I won't play it that often, and when I do, I'll never make it to uber-high level. So, I try to create characters as "front-loaded" as possible; this means that I try and create characters with the most efficient combination of feats, powers, skills, and spells that I can use RIGHT NOW.

Cannot cast them as domain spells, but can argue for writing them down... assuming I only get domain spell slots corresponding to cleric levels.

I also recently learned that you can copy down ANY divine spell and add it to your repertoire, be it Ranger, Druid, Paladin, OA Shaman, whatever. That's a neat ability, albeit relatively useless if your DM doesn't supply you with treasure scrolls. However, if you can find domain spells from other faiths, and if said spells happen to be on the Wizard list, you can get those, too.

Cheer up, bud. It's a new day. Let's see if a night's sleep has improved your creativity.

 

[Nifft]

Archivists are great!

1/ Never lower your caster level. This is the golden rule of making an effective spellcaster. You'll thank me later.

2/ You can learn any Domain spells you want, you just don't get any automatically by leveling up. Invest in divine scrolls; copy the desired Domain spells into your spell book; get full access to the spells you want to represent your Domains. (You'll be a bit better than a regular Cleric if you want to cast one of your Domain spells multiple times -- or if you want to prepare both Domain spells -- but you'll also be a bit worse, since you don't have +1 extra spell-slot per day.)

- - -

However, also: Cloistered Clerics are great! Your armor and HP reduction prevent you from direct competition with a traditional battle-Cleric, and so long as your Domains don't totally overlap, I don't think you'd feel like a repeat of his character. Also, Clerics are pretty much the only people interested in discussing religions, so you'll have someone to argue with in-character.

- - -

IMHO you could pick either of these -- Archivist or Cloistered Cleric -- and have a great character. But dabbling in both won't help, and will reduce your effectiveness as a spellcaster.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Herobizkit]

1/ Never lower your caster level. This is the golden rule of making an effective spellcaster. You'll thank me later.

Ya see? I told you it wouldn't take long for someone to poo poo multi-classing spellcasters. Good news is you can take the Practiced Spellcaster feat and regain those caster levels.

I also completely forgot about the Monk idea mentioned earlier. Three levels of Monk and you're 100% win for upping the martial aspects of your character, especially if your DM allows you a feat to let you use polearms as monk weapons (and can therefore flurry with reach).