Archmage's Counterspelling Mastery question

[NewJeffCT]

From the SRD: Mastery of Counterspelling: When the archmage counterspells a spell, it is turned back upon the caster as if it were fully affected by a spell turning spell. If the spell cannot be affected by spell turning, then it is merely counterspelled. This ability costs one 7th-level spell slot.

If an archmage has a Dispel Magic ready as a counterspell, would that be able to turn the spell back upon its caster? For example, the wizard has an Empowered Scorching Ray ready to go and casts it at the archmage - the archmage then uses Dispel Magic to counterspell... does the Empowered Scorching Ray then get turned back on its caster, assuming the Dispel Magic is successful? Or, would the archmage need to ready another spell to counter? If so, what kind?

Thanks

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yes, the Empowered Scorching Ray would be turned back on the caster (unless it's somehow not possible to spell turn it, but I don't think that's the case). The Archmage would have to make the CL check for dispel, but otherwise it'd work flawlessly.

Also, I should point out you don't "ready a spell to counterspell with." You ready to counterspell, and determine which spell you'll be using (via spellcraft) when the situation arises.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Yes, the Empowered Scorching Ray would be turned back on the caster (unless it's somehow not possible to spell turn it, but I don't think that's the case). The Archmage would have to make the CL check for dispel, but otherwise it'd work flawlessly.

Also, I should point out you don't "ready a spell to counterspell with." You ready to counterspell, and determine which spell you'll be using (via spellcraft) when the situation arises.

Thanks - and, can you counter a quickened spell as well?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Of course you can. You ready before the caster's turn to counterspell a spell. Why should it matter if it's a quickened spell or a 1 round casting time (like summon monster)?

Personally, I might choose to not take the readied action on a quickened spell, since it's likely weaker than what the caster's going to do with his standard action...

 

[NewJeffCT]

Thanks again! I added to your XP

 

[Runestar]

Do note that only spells that target only you can be turned (as per the limitations imposed by the spell turning spell). So in your example, scorching ray would merely be countered, not reflected, since it is not a targeted spell for all intents of interacting with mastery of counterspelling.

Targeted spells such as finger of death would be turned back on its caster though.

 

[Nebten]

Scorching ray is targeted spell . . .

 

[Runestar]

Scorching ray is targeted spell . . .

This is actually a very common mistake made by dnd players.

Targeted spells are defined in dnd as those with the "target" entry in their spell description. Scorching ray lacks such an entry, so it is not a targeted spell in dnd terminology.

This is the reason why it is not a valid choice of spell to be placed in a spell storing weapon (despite it being the most common/popular suggestion).

Conversely, shocking grasp does in fact have a "target" clause, and is thus a valid choice.

 

[Abciximab]

This is actually a very common mistake made by dnd players.

Targeted spells are defined in dnd as those with the "target" entry in their spell description. Scorching ray lacks such an entry, so it is not a targeted spell in dnd terminology.

This is the reason why it is not a valid choice of spell to be placed in a spell storing weapon (despite it being the most common/popular suggestion).

Conversely, shocking grasp does in fact have a "target" clause, and is thus a valid choice.

As much as it pains me to say it… It’s true...

Spell Turning - The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells.

Scorching Ray - Effect: One or more Rays

Edit -
Although there is also this...

Spell Turning - Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells.

Shocking Grasp - Range: Touch

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Personally- and I know this isn't RAW- I'd allow the countering of Scorching Ray.

I've seen enough 3.5 spells that have effect/area/target/other info in their stat block at odds with their text* that I apply a little common sense to their interpretation. Here and elsewhere, it looks like the designers got a little imprecise with their use of language and the mechanics of the game, and goofy RAW rulings result.

*Personal favorite: Whirling Blade- http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3r...1-whirling-blade-area-effect-just-effect.html