DemonAtheist
First Post
sorry about that...i leveled as well, i started out as 12 and wrote the wrong level, pardon stupidity please...
Are duelists overpowered?
- Thread starter DemonAtheist
- Start date
Actually, your AC is better than that. You only get Elaborate Parry when you fight defensively. So add 3 on to your AC for a total of 43 (including dodge). However, your bonus to hit at that point isn't very good.
Attack = +13 (BAB) + 5 (Dex) + 3 (?enhancement) - 4 (fight def) - 5 (combat expertise) = +12/+7/+2.
I'm guessing you have a +3 weapon. You won't be hitting much at level 13 with those attack bonuses. A fighter of the same level would have a similarly high armor class and still have a solid bonus to hit.
What is obscenely good is your touch AC is 41! You are going to anger some wizards and clerics who try to hit you a disintegrate or polar ray.
Attack = +13 (BAB) + 5 (Dex) + 3 (?enhancement) - 4 (fight def) - 5 (combat expertise) = +12/+7/+2.
I'm guessing you have a +3 weapon. You won't be hitting much at level 13 with those attack bonuses. A fighter of the same level would have a similarly high armor class and still have a solid bonus to hit.
What is obscenely good is your touch AC is 41! You are going to anger some wizards and clerics who try to hit you a disintegrate or polar ray.
James McMurray
First Post
Tensen: if you add fighting defensively to the mix you get 39, only one lower than the posted Duelist's AC.
Change the breastplate +4 (16,000gp) to mithral full plate +2 (15,500) and you'll have +10 from armor, meaning you've got the same 40 as the duelist.
The duelist will be more maneuverable and have more skills, but you'll have presumably focused more on strength and con, and will therefore deal more damage and be able to take more of a beating when foes can get past your high AC (with spells for example). Seems pretty balanced to me.
Change the breastplate +4 (16,000gp) to mithral full plate +2 (15,500) and you'll have +10 from armor, meaning you've got the same 40 as the duelist.
The duelist will be more maneuverable and have more skills, but you'll have presumably focused more on strength and con, and will therefore deal more damage and be able to take more of a beating when foes can get past your high AC (with spells for example). Seems pretty balanced to me.
In my 2 year stint as finessed fighter type in various classes, i have to agree that they can get their AC high but so can the plate mail + shield guy and the latter will be hitting more often and with harder force at that. I think finessed fighters in 3.5e are short of weak in comparison to the conventional tanks. YMMV however.
Duelists are good at duels, meaning 1-1 combat. However, having your AC through the room isn't that valuable in a big fight, because you don't do much damage. As such, you can live through anything, so all of your friends will die first. This is the problem with finesse fighters- having ridiculously good defense is much better for you than for your party.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
One of the PC's in a game I play in has an astronomical AC (relatively speaking), and he is very difficult for most monsters to hit... but he doesn't do as much damage when the strike actually lands (and in fact the PC worries that he is not effective, despite being very hard to hit).
It just becomes that characters "schtick".
interestingly, comparing him to a CR13 challenge - say an evil Storm Giant, the giants attacks are Greatsword +26/+21/+16 melee (4d6+21/19–20) or an Adult Green dragon that gets +26 to hit with its primary (bite); just on a physical level these have a decent chance of snagging him with one of their primary attacks (let alone spell like or magical attacks!)
(n.b. once upon a time I thought that expertise didn't stack with fighting defensively (it was considered a sort of "better version of it". Has that changed, or was I wrong?
Cheers
It just becomes that characters "schtick".
interestingly, comparing him to a CR13 challenge - say an evil Storm Giant, the giants attacks are Greatsword +26/+21/+16 melee (4d6+21/19–20) or an Adult Green dragon that gets +26 to hit with its primary (bite); just on a physical level these have a decent chance of snagging him with one of their primary attacks (let alone spell like or magical attacks!)
(n.b. once upon a time I thought that expertise didn't stack with fighting defensively (it was considered a sort of "better version of it". Has that changed, or was I wrong?
Cheers
Destil
Explorer
Yeah. Going a step further both have a 16 unmagical dex (the dualist has 20 total with a +4 enhancement), and the dualist has a 20 int (and no boosting item posted) which the figher could either have placed in Con or Str for +60 total HP from con or +5 to hit and +7 to damage with a two-handed weapon. The dualist is instead getting a +5 AC. Works for me.James McMurray said:Tensen: if you add fighting defensively to the mix you get 39, only one lower than the posted Duelist's AC.
Change the breastplate +4 (16,000gp) to mithral full plate +2 (15,500) and you'll have +10 from armor, meaning you've got the same 40 as the duelist.
The duelist will be more maneuverable and have more skills, but you'll have presumably focused more on strength and con, and will therefore deal more damage and be able to take more of a beating when foes can get past your high AC (with spells for example). Seems pretty balanced to me.
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