Are Essentials more old school or just a clever marketing ploy?

[Imaro]

How so? Rituals are still a part of Essentials, and will be expanded with the upcoming book.

And don't forget in 1e there were scrolls just about anyone could cast, manuals anyone could use, etc.

Again keep in mind I'm saying it feels like an oldschool idea that was expanded on. Like someone saw the mention of tomes and manuals and scrolls anyone could use- and said hey, this is my interpretation.

I'm not really going to go back and forth on the rest of the ideas in your post since it seems apparent to me it really is a YMMV type situation... however this I did want to address... the concept, in a vague way, of rituals still exsists in essentials (like the 1e example you gave) but as of right now there is not a single ritual in essentials or a way for PC's to cast them... I am not going to argue about an upcoming book that isn't technically an essentials release... but playing essentials only... there are no rituals in the formalized sense of 4e classic or a way for PC's to gain the ability to cast them without DM fiat or a houserule.

 

[Jack99]

I think you can learn a lot about a game by listening to how people describe it after they play it. It shows you how they interact with, see, and process the game.

[Snip]

It's something that I think of as the game's metaphor, or its idiom. To an outsider, D&D is a few people sitting around a table, rolling dice, consulting books, speaking in funny voices, and maybe pushing miniatures around a grid. To the people in the game, it's a tense expedition into an ancient ruin, made all the more deadly by the bloodthirsty, recently awakened vampire that stalks the tombs they explore. That's an important part of the game. Without it, the game is little more than what it appears to be on the surface.

I suspect you are making a lot of people happy with this shift in direction.

 

[ggroy]

On topic: I honestly didn't think I would find a use for Essentials, but as it is now, I am ditching 4e core asap. Essentials is what 4e should have been from the start.

If I was starting a new 4E game today, personally I too would use 4E Essentials instead of the older "4E core" D&D. (My previous 4E core game ended around 9 months ago).

I've been playing 4E Encounters, which this season is using 4E Essentials. So far the 4E Essentials player characters are a lot easier to play.

 

[Quickleaf]

I really like the way Mike Mearls put it. When you sit down to your first game of D&D you cross this magic line from what the game looks like on the surface to its...heart? The right word eludes me. Like Imaro and Whearp I have noticed players, new and old, who get overwhelmed (or is it underwhelmed?) at powers and tactics. I think the problem is that emphasis on complex tactics impedes the ability of newer or story-focused players to get into the roleplaying. Essentials, in addition to being a marketing ploy, seems to be a move toward a more "balanced" game in terms of rules and story. Is that old school? I don't know. Those of us who are hardened gamers sometimes take for granted the ability to switch between and integrate rules and story. The truth is that it's a learned skill. At some point we all learned it. Where I think and hope Essentials are headed is making it less intimidating and more enjoyable for new players to cross that magic line.

 

[Scribble]

I'm not really going to go back and forth on the rest of the ideas in your post since it seems apparent to me it really is a YMMV type situation...

Sure- I agree with that.

however this I did want to address... the concept, in a vague way, of rituals still exsists in essentials (like the 1e example you gave) but as of right now there is not a single ritual in essentials or a way for PC's to cast them... I am not going to argue about an upcoming book that isn't technically an essentials release... but playing essentials only... there are no rituals in the formalized sense of 4e classic or a way for PC's to gain the ability to cast them without DM fiat or a houserule.

Playing Essentials only is the houserule.

 

[Imaro]

Playing Essentials only is the houserule.

So essentials hasn't been marketed as stand alone and playable without further books... it's a houserule to play it as the designers intended? That's like saying playing with just the PHB1, MM1 and DMG1 is a houserule... c'mon Scribble...really?

 

[Anathos]

So essentials hasn't been marketed as stand alone and playable without further books... it's a houserule to play it as the designers intended? That's like saying playing with just the PHB1, MM1 and DMG1 is a houserule... c'mon Scribble...really?

He means that a DM restricting players to a specific set of source books is a house rule (it being a rule of the house) because nothing says that you can only play with a subset of the material.

 

[Imaro]

He means that a DM restricting players to a specific set of source books is a house rule (it being a rule of the house) because nothing says that you can only play with a subset of the material.

What? so you're only playing 4e (non-houseruled) if you include every book, dragon article, etc. ever made for it... man, whatever. Regardless, my point still stands in an essentials game... rituals do not exist.

 

[Anathos]

What? so you're only playing 4e (non-houseruled) if you include every book, dragon article, etc. ever made for it... man, whatever.

In a word, yes. Saying "no, you can't use that" is creating a rule that applies specifically to your game. In common parlance this is called a "house rule". There's nothing wrong with good house rules, but that's what you're making when you restrict access to material.

 

[Imaro]

In a word, yes. Saying "no, you can't use that" is creating a rule that applies specifically to your game. In common parlance this is called a "house rule". There's nothing wrong with good house rules, but that's what you're making when you restrict access to material.

See my edited post... ultimately it is irrelevant to my point. Essentials has been clearly designated as 10 specific products... that do not include rituals... so I'm not even sure what point Scribble was making here...

EDIT: the more I think about it how is an "Essentials" game a houserule when they are a seperate line of products specifically designated as "Essentials"? Am I "houseruling " my FR game if only FR material is allowed, but not Eberron stuff??