Are Gognards killing D&D?

[Brother MacLaren]

I *think* they had both actually. I'd have to do some very serious digging in the hermetically sealed boxes stored away in a dry basement area but I recall both mechanisms where they were classes in of themselves and a transition class similar to the old 1st Edition Bard where you had to have X classes levels.

BECMI had paladins and druids as proto-Prestige Classes. A mid-level Fighter could become a Paladin, Knight, or Avenger, or remain a Fighter. There were some modest benefits for Paladin and Avenger, minor ones for Knight, but you kept the Fighter XP table, attack table, and saving throws. Oh, and you couldn't own land. A mid-level Cleric could become a Druid, with 4 new spells per level and some special abilities and restrictions, but otherwise much like the cleric. These options appeared in the Companion Set.
BECMI also had monks and assassins as base classes; Mystics and Headsmen, as they were called, appeared in the Masters Set.

 

[Minicol]

BECMI had paladins and druids as proto-Prestige Classes. A mid-level Fighter could become a Paladin, Knight, or Avenger, or remain a Fighter. There were some modest benefits for Paladin and Avenger, minor ones for Knight, but you kept the Fighter XP table, attack table, and saving throws. Oh, and you couldn't own land. A mid-level Cleric could become a Druid, with 4 new spells per level and some special abilities and restrictions, but otherwise much like the cleric. These options appeared in the Companion Set.
BECMI also had monks and assassins as base classes; Mystics and Headsmen, as they were called, appeared in the Masters Set.

What is BECMI ?
Basic Edition ? and ?

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

What is BECMI ?
Basic Edition ? and ?

Basic Expert Companion Master Immortal

This was a separate edition from AD&D referred to as D&D. Can't remember exactly when this edition started (early 80s for sure), but it was after AD&D (a.k.a 1E) in the late 70s. The reference was to the different level ranges. I remember Basic covered levels 1-3... I forget the rest... I think Immortal was levels 36+. Pretty reminiscent of 4E's Heroic/Paragon/Epic breakdown actually. Each level range was covered by a different boxed set.

I'm sure someone will come along and correct any errors I've made, but the general gist of what I've said is correct.

 

[Maggan]

What is BECMI ?
Basic Edition ? and ?

Basic Set
Expert Set
Companion Set
Master Set
Immortal Set

All with covers by Larry Elmore. My favourite version of D&D.

/M

 

[Oldtimer]

Or are you referring to the white box D&D books, rather than BECMI?

Mourn, Tquirky, and Greylock all said "original D&D" or "OD&D". This is not BECMI that they're talking about, but the original edition first published in 1974.

The "white box D&D books" would actually be a kind of misnomer, since the first three printings used a wooden imitation box. The fourth printing switched to a white box.

Hence the name OD&D for it.

And it had the classes Fighting-Man, Magic-User, Cleric, Thief, Paladin, Ranger, Illusionist, Druid, Monk, Assassin, and Bard (though only the first three were available in the original boxed set).

 

[Greylock]

Someone from either here or one of the other major forums created this page:

http://web.fisher.cx/robert/rpg/dnd-id/

An illustrated guide to D&D editions.

 

[HeinorNY]

Someone from either here or one of the other major forums created this page:

http://web.fisher.cx/robert/rpg/dnd-id/

An illustrated guide to D&D editions.

I'm a great fan of WAR, but looking at the covers from 1991, the second covers from 1978 and the first covers from 1989, the actual 4E covers suck.

 

[Navior]

Basic Expert Companion Master Immortal

This was a separate edition from AD&D referred to as D&D. Can't remember exactly when this edition started (early 80s for sure), but it was after AD&D (a.k.a 1E) in the late 70s. The reference was to the different level ranges. I remember Basic covered levels 1-3... I forget the rest... I think Immortal was levels 36+. Pretty reminiscent of 4E's Heroic/Paragon/Epic breakdown actually. Each level range was covered by a different boxed set.

I'm sure someone will come along and correct any errors I've made, but the general gist of what I've said is correct.

Basic: Levels 1 - 3
Expert: Levels 4 - 14
Companion: Levels 15 - 25
Masters: Levels 26 -36

Immortals had a separate advancement system. The original Immortals set had six ranks: Initiate, Temporal, Celestial, Empyreal, Eternal, and Hierarch. Except for Initiate, each rank had six levels: Novice then levels 1 to 5. Initiate had no levels.
The Wrath of the Immortals boxed set later massively revised the rules for Immortal characters. Immortals now had levels from 1 to 36 like mortals. The ranks were still there at every six levels (Initiate levels 1 - 6, Temporal levels 7 - 12, etc.)

 

[Clavis]

And Wizards has the advantage of things like professional market research,...

Oh, you mean the same kind of professional market research that brought us New Coke?

Anybody whose ever been in marketing, and is honest about it, can tell you that mostly it's just making educated guesses. It's not a science, and is certainly subject to the same "tell them what they want to hear" pressure that affects the entire corperate culture.

 

[Oldtimer]

Someone from either here or one of the other major forums created this page:

http://web.fisher.cx/robert/rpg/dnd-id/

An illustrated guide to D&D editions.

Well, he's a bit off with OD&D. It was first published in 1974 and he's illustrated it with a box cover from 1975...

(Trying to be the ultimate grognard)