D&D 5E Are Per Rest Resources a Hindrance?

[billd91]

I haven't gone through all the (probably many) features that this would be broken on and carved out exceptions for them, but in general I would like less reasons for my players to not use their features. If the iconic move of a Barbarian is to rage, why limit their rages to such an extent? Why should a Fighter be so miserly with their Superiority Dice, or a Bard with their Bardic Inspiration Dice? This would also help non-caster martials regain some parity with their caster peers; a Paladin doesn't look so overwhelmingly superior to a Monk anymore when the Monk gets their level in Stunning Strike attempts each combat. And since spells have an absurd ability to dictate the terms of an engagement, plus their unparalleled utility, that keeping them as the one true Long Rest resource makes sense. If any classes should be playing a resource management mini-game it should be the full casters with their large array of "I win" buttons.

This has been an issue all throughout D&D's history. In earlier editions, it was characterized more by PCs not using expendable resources like potions, magic ammunition, wand charges, and so on. You'll even see it in computer games where there's a metered resource. And it's all in the player mentality about managing resources and opportunity costs. "If I use it now, it may help but I might need it more later" is always a potential issue whether it's about using the +1 arrows, the action surge, the grenades, etc. And the more expensive the resource is to get, the bigger an issue this is. If it costs thousands of dollars/gold/credits, and that money is scarce, PCs won't use it. If it's a hassle to get, they won't use it. If it's hard to get the 8 hour rest, they'll hoard those spell slots.
The way adventures/games work toward rising action against tougher opponents and a boss monster is almost never a help in these circumstances either. By the time you encounter them, your resources are probably ebbing low. That too, I'm sure, has helped to "train" players to play this way.

But if it's relatively easy, they may be encouraged to use them. In 3e/PF, cure light wounds spells had a LOT of charges and were cheap - PFS characters were always pretty easily stocked with them. If you refresh your grenade stash after every couple of combats, or can hide behind some cover to recover your energy shield, you use them. If your hit points come back after every combat, you risk losing them with reckless abandon. If you can get an 8 hour rest easily and impunity, you nova and have a 15 minute adventuring day. If you don't have to worry about BODY or hit points in a Superhero game, you can move from fight to fight like in the comics without worrying about being too beat up to chase down the villain.

So, what should you do? Figure out which resources you want the PCs to use more freely and put them on a short rest - something I find 5e has already done to my satisfaction. Shorten the short rest from the default 1 hour to 5-10 minutes - enough to credibly bandage up and catch a breather after a deadly fight - if you need to. Keep the ones you want PCs using more judiciously to a longer rest. Make potions even cheaper and easier to use like using the Critical Role house rule of drinking a potion as a bonus action.
And, above all, remind players that resources are there to be used.

 

[Flamestrike]

The problem with "PB uses per day" is that it encourages PCs to nova and then rest - the 15 minute adventuring day.

I agree. Im tempted to add: '... but no more than once per encounter' limiter to those abilities.

 

[Jer]

it never accrued to me that people WANTED the 5 minute work day concept... this just blew my mind.

I think there are a lot of people who think that it's bad and don't like it, but also would be unhappy with any actual changes made to fix it. As @Ruin Explorer says, this isn't a problem in other RPGs. But if you pull the solutions from those RPGs into D&D, you're going to get a lot of people who decide "that's not D&D". I mean just look around at the various D&D variants out there and count the ones who continue to use Vancian casting and spell slots vs. things other games use for spell casting (skill checks, stamina rolls, spell points, etc.) - overwhelmingly you're going to see Vancian casting as the magic system because that's D&D and the other kinds of systems are "not D&D" to a very large audience of players. But spell slots are at the heart of the 5 minute workday and if you don't get rid of them you aren't getting rid of it as a concept (cantrips IMO actually mitigate against the 5 minute work day as well for the damage-dealing spellcasters, but when the cleric runs out of healing you pretty much have one encounter left at most, just like in the old days).

I also think that contrary to discussions on this board there are plenty of tables where the 5 minute workday just isn't a problem. The table knows that they're going to do 3-4 combat encounters minimum before they rest, and they've been playing that way since AD&D 1e was a thing, so they just do it that way. The ruleset doesn't encourage or punish them for doing things that way, it's just "how you do it" so they do it. (And for those folks the baffling decision to make 6-8 combat encounters the default before a rest for encounter building is probably more of a concern than the 5 minute work day is).

 

[Eric V]

yup... I miss the 4e encounter power concept... however I also remember "Everyone felt they were still doing the same thing every fight" I almost wish we had MORE type of recharge. "This power/ability/spell comes back every fight, this one takes a short rest, this one takes 4 hours rest or no, this one comes back on a long rest, and this one only recharges weekly or monthly." but I fear that is too complex.

some classes get "if you don't have any of X when you start a fight regain Y number" at levels and I think that could work.

In 13th Age, in addition to short and long rest recharges (called quick rest and full heal-up), some classes also have variable recharge powers (when taking a quick rest, if you roll 6+, or 11+, or 16+, the ability recharges) with the more powerful ones having a higher recharge roll.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

In 13th Age, in addition to short and long rest recharges (called quick rest and full heal-up), some classes also have variable recharge powers (when taking a quick rest, if you roll 6+, or 11+, or 16+, the ability recharges) with the more powerful ones having a higher recharge roll.

I love 13th age

 

[Eric V]

I love 13th age

Same! When our group found 5e kinda meh, but couldn't go back to 4e without some serious modifications, we tried 13th Age and it really fit the bill.

Having said that, I would love to run the Mirkwood campaign for AiME 5e if I had the right group. Not a coincidence, it's by Gareth Ryder-Hanrahan, a frequent 13th Age collaborator.

 

[Krachek]

Fiction often utilize power recharge, magic, strength, courage, most heroes are not always ON.
so ressource recharge is a tool to help build drama, tension, dramatic.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes, this is a significant problem for most players in my experience. It’s generally very difficult to predict how many encounters you will have in any given day, and 5e is balanced such that the players are favored to win even if they don’t spend any limited resources. This leads to a situation where players are always saving such resources for a hypothetical encounter where they “might need it more” that never comes. I have had some success in persuading players that they should start thinking of every spell slot (or whatever) they still have when they take a long rest as a spell wasted. But, of course, the flip side is the 5 minute workday.

Just another problem 4e solved only for WotC to walk it back because it didn’t “feel like D&D” without it.

 

[Blue]

But what is also needed is a mechanism that encourages PCs to press on for "one more encounter" - whether that is a gradual ratcheting up of XP awards as they increase the number of encounters per day, or the use of some sort of escalation die that makes their powers stronger as they go on, or even some powers that only become available after a number of encounters. I'm not sure of the details, but building something like that in would help reduce that 15-min day problem.

I very much agree with this. However, when exploring it mechanically I often run into solutions that work but are considered "too gamist" by many when I discuss them.

Attempts to divorce the recovery mechanism from an in-narrative rest also hit into the same roadblock.

Sentinel Comics RPG has an interesting bit. Both scenes are your condition are rated GYRO - Green, Yellow, Red, Out. And some powers unlock at the various ratings. So if the situation- or your own condition - is dire enough you can escalate powers. That keeps it tied into the narrative.

I'm looking for other ways to fulfill what you rightfully pointed out we need, that make in-game sense. Including in other pillars of play besides combat where time is not a limiting factor.

 

[Vaalingrade]

If clinging to the resource minigame is one of the things that makes D&D D&D, then D&D would be better off not being D&D.