D&D 5E Are Per Rest Resources a Hindrance?

[Mort]

Yes, this is a significant problem for most players in my experience. It’s generally very difficult to predict how many encounters you will have in any given day, and 5e is balanced such that the players are favored to win even if they don’t spend any limited resources. This leads to a situation where players are always saving such resources for a hypothetical encounter where they “might need it more” that never comes. I have had some success in persuading players that they should start thinking of every spell slot (or whatever) they still have when they take a long rest as a spell wasted. But, of course, the flip side is the 5 minute workday.

Just another problem 4e solved only for WotC to walk it back because it didn’t “feel like D&D” without it.

Yes, the sad fact is, despite the cries of protest being legion - 4e Daily, Encounter and at-will powers were excellent design. And not JUST for the reasons being discussed in this thread!

But to address the thread issue:

Assuming we table the time pressure discussion (it's been discussed ad nauseum in some recent threads), the problem really is that 5e PCs can waltz right over most encounters - right up until they can't.

Specifically - you have to throw A LOT of medium or less encounters, or even a decent amount of hard encounters to make a well functioning party sweat. So what to do you have to do if you want to make them sweat with only a few (or even 1) encounter? You have to go deadly.

And not the DMG version of deadly (which is defined, If I recall correctly, as the party being forced to spend 25% or more of its resources) but TRULY deadly +4 CR or much higher.

And the problem there (as I suspect @tetrasodium will affirm) is that it's still not TOO hard for the prarty right up until it shifts quickly (like falling off a cliff quickly) into TPK territory.

It takes an experienced DM to overclock the CRs well enough to challenge but avoid the TPK issue. Of course, one solution is to ensure the party can run from any given encounter (which, IMO, isn't as easy as it sounds - running in 5e, unless the party can teleport isn't all that easy).

But if you do that, we're right back at the 5/15 minute workday (again ignoring the discussion on time pressure, for the moment).

So yea, 5e makes it tricky.

 

[payn]

If clinging to the resource minigame is one of the things that makes D&D D&D, then D&D would be better off not being D&D.

There's always more TTRPGs in the sea.

 

[Ancalagon]

I feel as a GM I almost have to ... push for a short rest, with some groups. Like even if you are a "long rest" class, you can still get decent resources from a short rest.

 

[Vaalingrade]

There's always more TTRPGs in the sea.

Yeah, but there's one I'd rather see improve and progress rather than be smothered by the past.

 

[James Gasik]

I think the Ranger has one short rest mechanic, at 10th level. Some subclasses might give some, but not all do.

 

[Mort]

Yeah, but there's one I'd rather see improve and progress rather than be smothered by the past.

First, enough people have to agree what is meant by "progress."

And second, 5e is doing well enough that, WoTC (and Hasbro) would never rock that boat! Certainly not yet.

 

[Flamestrike]

If clinging to the resource minigame is one of the things that makes D&D D&D, then D&D would be better off not being D&D.

Mechanically speaking DnD is a resource management game.

HP, GP, XP, SP, Ki, Rages, charges, HD, Slots, X/Short or Long rest etc etc etc

That's why phenomena like the 5MWD and Nova tactics are a thing, and encounter difficulty (and class balance) can get out of kilter unless you're largely sticking to a median (not every adventuring day, just the median) that fits within the 6 encounter per long rest (with 2 short rest) paradigm.

That's just a truism, and it's due to the mechanical underpinnings of the system you're using. Whether it's desirable, undesirable, good or bad is up for debate, but the fact it exists is not.

Once you accept that truth, as the DM, you're faced with options on how to manage it in game. You can always choose not to, but when the game devolves into rocket tag, and some classes get left behind in the dust, that consequence is due to your choice as DM, as much as it is the system you're using.

Simple techniques include doom clocks, 'gritty rest' variants (or other mechanical changes to resting and resource recovery) or a simple 'out of game' chat with the players (please dont try and game the rest mechanic, or else).

 

[payn]

Yeah, but there's one I'd rather see improve and progress rather than be smothered by the past.

The only smothering is the idea D&D is the only game in town.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And second, 5e is doing well enough that, WoTC (and Hasbro) would never rock that boat! Certainly not yet.

They're already floating trial balloons to actively make it worse with the Proficiency Bonus per Long Rest malarky.

 

[Minigiant]

Assuming we table the time pressure discussion (it's been discussed ad nauseum in some recent threads), the problem really is that 5e PCs can waltz right over most encounters - right up until they can't.

D&D (and D&D style RPGs) is one of the few games where PCs has regular, reliable, rechargable "Encounter Enders" and "Encounter Escapes"

Most games pull those to the side and out the normal equation by being special, unreliable, or costly.