D&D 5E Are Rogues mostly archers?

[S'mon]

In my no-feats 5e game the Rogue nearly always uses two melee weapons, for two chances to sneak attack/round. He is pretty squishy though compared to his barbarian friend - trying this vs a Dragon Turtle at 8th/9th level proved a bad idea...

I think archery with lots of hiding & popping up for advtg is probably more effective, and certainly safer, but takes more player effort to Hide each round, depending on how lenient the GM is.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thank you

 

[Rhogar_Rarr]

My rogue character uses a skirmishing style in melee, but he is pretty unique and kinda complex. Long post ahead, if you want the summary, just skip to the last paragraph. The next three are just my personal experience and demonstration of a melee rogue.

First of all, he is a Fighter (Battlemaster 3) / Rogue (Swashbulker 6) with Dawnbringer, which is essentially a finesse longsword. The swashbulker levels gives me plenty of mobility options. I can use Fancy Footwork to move away from any target I attacked for free. If there are more enemies around me, I can use a bonus action disengage. Basically I can go in, strike hard, and move away with no opportunity attacks.

Now here's where he gets a bit different from your normal rogue. He picked up magic initiate at Rogue 4, so he has booming blade. So he can essentially go up to a target, booming blade them, apply sneak attack on a hit with his finesse sword, and then move away. So then the target has to move to attack someone and will take the extra thunder damage. Booming blade is a great boon for melee skirmish type rogues for these reasons.

The final icing on the cake is the fighter levels, giving him a few benefits. Second wind and the extra HP provide some durability for staying in melee (Uncanny Dodge helps too!). The maneuvers help him take things down quickly and effectively (Precision helps him hit, Riposte for another helping of sneak attack when he's missed). And then there's the fighting style--which in his case is Great Weapon Fighting, but I can see most rogues going for two-weapon fighting for melee or archery for range. But fortunately, Dawnbringer wielded in two hands lets him reroll all damage with any melee attack (usually 1d10+1d8+3d6+5). He still doesn't do nearly as much damage as a crossbow expert/sharpshooter rogue, but I find it interesting and more engaging to perilously dance in and out of melee. Plus rolling that many dice and getting to reroll the low ones is quite fun and makes an attack feel more successful.

In conclusion, I'd say the ranged rogue is safer and easier to use; plus the skirmishing melee rogue doesn't get better until later levels and may require some multiclassing. It requires more tactical thought and understanding to use a rogue in melee and survive. Even then, it only becomes fairly workable around level 2-3 (rogue 2 ~ fighter 1). You need rogue 2 for the mobility and 1 fighter level helps with the early survivability. Then getting access to booming blade and Uncanny Dodge (magic initiate, eldritch knight, or high elf) comes later for the most part. And if you don't have access to the SCAG, some of the best melee rogue options aren't available to you.

 

[Kalshane]

In the game I'm currently running (at 15th level) the rogue is almost exclusively in melee, though he took a level of fighter (which gave him shield proficiency) and I house-ruled elven chain to allow full Dex to AC if you're proficient in medium armor, so he's got one of the highest ACs in the party (only the sword-and-board fighter in full plate with Defense style is higher) and can Uncanny Dodge for half damage in the rare case he's hit. He's also got a magical rapier that allows him to crit on a 19 or 20.

In the game I'm currently playing in (at 6th level), our halfling rogue (AT) mixes it up between melee with her daggers and ranged with her crossbow, depending on the situation.

I do agree the rules as-written heavily favor the ranged rogue. That's why I try to add things (like the rogue's magical rapier or my house-rule Knife Master feat) that give rogues reasons to mix it up in melee more.

 

[hejtmane]

The strange thing about Sneak Attack and ranged weapons is that it actually encourages you to shoot arrows at people who are right next to your friends.

...which is insane. In real life, that's how you end up with a lot of dead friends. But there's no penalty for it in 5e, and for the Rogue, it's actually encouraged. I am considering the following additional houserules:

Combat: Making an Attack: Ranged Attacks: Whenever you miss with a ranged attack, re-roll the attack against a random other creature within 5 feet of the intended target, if any. Use the same modifiers for the attack roll and damage roll. (Use this only if the "hitting cover" rule does not apply, DMG 272)

or

Classes: Rogue: Sneak Attack does not work with ranged weapons.

or

Classes: Rogue: Delete the second paragraph of Sneak Attack (the one about "another enemy of the target within 5 feet"). Advantage is the only way of enabling Sneak Attack.

While if someone roles a 1 that is exactly the type of stuff that happens at my table a critical fail sometimes causes harm to you buddies or yourself

 

[CapnZapp]

Well, unfortunately the question a good minmaxer is asking herself, is:

Why would anyone choose anything but ranged combat?

 

[akr71]

Mh, looks like the Rogue doesn't really have a lot of incentive to go in melee... Guess the melee rogue idea is just ingrained in my brain by too many years of previous versions of DnD (and way too many hours of World of Warcraft...)

I disagree. If you do get hit, Uncanny Dodge allows the Rogue to halve the damage he/she takes. Every time.
My Rogue took Crossbow Expert and uses an hand crossbow and rapier. After that single shot with the crossbow, he switches to rapier and dagger (the crossbow is on a leather thong attached to his belt, so he just drops the thing and draws the dagger). Yes, he hangs back and waits for opponents to be engaged with other party members whenever possible, increasing his chance to score a sneak attack.

 

[TheLoneRanger1979]

.......He still doesn't do nearly as much damage as a crossbow expert/sharpshooter rogue, but I find it interesting and more engaging to perilously dance in and out of melee. Plus rolling that many dice and getting to reroll the low ones is quite fun and makes an attack feel more successful.

In conclusion, I'd say the ranged rogue is safer and easier to use; plus the skirmishing melee rogue doesn't get better until later levels and may require some multiclassing. It requires more tactical thought and understanding to use a rogue in melee and survive........

I play something similar to this only more tank-y, a fighter-ranger hybrid with a mobile feat. Acting as a rapid intervention unit on the battlefield may not be the most DPR efficient way of fighting, but it sure is fun.

Combat: Making an Attack: Ranged Attacks: Whenever you miss with a ranged attack, re-roll the attack against a random other creature within 5 feet of the intended target, if any. Use the same modifiers for the attack roll and damage roll. (Use this only if the "hitting cover" rule does not apply, DMG 272)


or

As for the hit allies on miss, when fighting at range with engaged enemies..... then how about on each miss your roll a d10, then 1-9 hits a "square" around the target, while 0 misses all the way? If not playing on a grid, just assign 1-9 on arbitrary targets withing 5 feet from the original target...

 

[Clancey]

I disagree. If you do get hit, Uncanny Dodge allows the Rogue to halve the damage he/she takes. Every time.

Well, unless you get attacked twice or more in the same round, then not so much, as the first strike uses your reaction. I've had the first strike cause minimal damage that used my reaction and then got hit again with a crit.