Are the Scarlet bro's and Iuz holding GREYHAWK back?

[GVDammerung]

Greyhawk will continue to be dead and a used-up world until it changes. Iuz and SB are the biggest things holding it back. They are stagnant, used-up plotlines that are no longer cool.

jh

Darn skippy! QFT.

I read the OP as imagining what can be done to help the _published_ setting, rendering irrelevant the "you can do this or that in your campaign" sort of responses.

In the published setting, Iuz sucks the oxygen from the room for other villains. FtA actually expanded this sucking effect - no more Horned Society, the BKs compromised. Two nice villain/adventure generators were either destroyed or second guessed to make Iuz a bigger baddie. The problem is that bigger baddie cum LLG is just sitting there taking up space, to say nothing of his, by now, having become old hat. Again, this is in the published setting.

The Scarlet Brotherhood is even worse. They were cool, secret plotters composed of thieves, assassins and monks. FtA outted them and there is not a closet big enough for them to ever get back inside. They virtually control the southern seas and actually control or struggle to retain control is several former independent countries. The worst effect of the SB was the destruction of the independence of the Hold of the Sea Princes, one of GH's best adventure incubators. It is now compromised by the SB, even worse than the BKs are compromised by Iuz.

So, yeah. The OP is, IMO, right on target.

I'd go father and add Turrosh Mak and the lame Orcish Empire of the Pomarj which compromised the greatest adventure incubator of the Flanaess - the Wild Coast. Turrosh needs his Mak handed to him on the way to the dust bin of GH history.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Emirikol! My friend! Well, I'll be honest. *newsflash*--the official Greyhawk Campaign setting is languishing, and has really been a literary and game-corpse for many years now, and it will never get better. FR and Eberron are the new kids on the block, and they're here to stay. I'm a long-time fan of Greyhawk, and it's sad to see it die--but the reality is, it's dead. Just dead, and it will never be any different. So, waiting for WOTC to somehow wake-up and reinvigorate the campaign just seems like....waiting for the Second Coming of Christ or something....you will likely be old and grey before seeing anything different, officially.

So, that means that you, and any others interested in Greyhawk, must soldier on, and create stuff on your own, for *your* GH campaign, and eff what WOTC thinks about it.

However, I can think of a few quick things to inject some freshness into the GH campaign, and work around the feeling of ennui and stagnation.

The Arrival of the Harak

The Harak barbarians arrive in a series of waves of immigrations, landing with huge fleets of massive, dragon-headed warships of black oak, with giant rows of whale-flippers propelling them through the ocean waters, and sails driven by icy wind provided by Wind Crystals. The ships' dragon-heads are animated, and sentient...each being hungry, ferocious, and ready for battle. The dragon-ships each have their own individual names, and their own personalities, always vying with their siblings and brethren for glory in war...the Harak first arrive with hordes of ferocious warriors, all wearing fine mail, and wielding bloody axes and glittering swords...other warbands spilling forth from the black dragon-ships are savage warriors, half human, and half troll....while others....are bands of blood-oathed werewolves, loping off into the countryside, killing and devouring everything in their path....day and night, the lands of the Scarlet Brotherhood are torn by flames and the screams of the dying.

The Harak use cavalry--hard, rugged men, mounted on strange, six-legged shaggy horses, with gleaming blue fire for eyes....the bands of savage cavalry ride over the land, always enshrouded in dense fog...with eerie hymns sung by ancient warriors spurring them on to battle...

Marching with the hordes of Harak warriors, are tall, grim women priestesses, long hair blowing in some eldritch wind....bringing disease, ruin, and death to all who stand against them. These priestesses scream to the ancient gods as the armies march to war, calling upon the Harak to slaughter their enemies, and bring the women to the altars of the gods, so that the gods can be fed...."Yea, warriors, heed not the gold and promises of the weak as they are trampled under your feet....strike them down, burn, and slaughter....make the fine lands of the weak men flaming wastelands...show them no mercy"

As the armies of the Harak march, battling the Scarlet Brotherhood at every turn, there are fierce and grim giants in their company, shouting their rage as they wield great howling rams, battering down the gates, and opening up the cities to the sword and fire of conquest. The Harak have powerful cabals of wizards, that ride giant black horses of stone and fire, riding with the columns of troops on raids and into the fiercest battles. Everywhere the Harak march, their wizards help to quickly build towering Harak castles, raised by the hands of giants, the stone mixed with the blood and bones of the conquered...

Month after month, year after year, more Harak fleets arrive, and the Harak proceed to conquer and plunder, crushing their enemies before their might, and soon, new kingdoms arise...the honeyed words, the smooth bribes of the locals....their trinkets and coins offered by the hands of the feeble, mean nothing to the Harak....

Thus, you can have the Harak sweep the Brotherhood from the region, and shatter it's power. Hunting the Brotherhood leadership down, day and night by platoons of werewolves, or groups of vampires....columns of Harak raiders, supported by their grim priestesses, and ruthless wizards...thus, the Brotherhood can be utterly annihilated, or cast out, a broken organization, weak, feeble, and scattered.

From the beyond the Bright Desert, a mighty army marches into the region, and conquers a new empire. The invaders are the Narmen, led by a powerful, majestic warrior-king, Xanthar, a great warrior, general, and visionary, determined to conquer a new empire for himself, and establish a great dynasty to rule through the ages. Perhaps Xanthar is a demi-god, or half-demon, and rules with not only strength, but also grace, shrewdness, and wisdom. He inspires all around him, and has visions and plans for a new empire, a new society, with revolutionary ideas...with his fanatically loyal army of mighty warriors, he also brings new ideas, new languages, and a new pantheon of gods. His wealth is near limitless, from his earlier mighty conquests, of kingdoms and lands far and wide. His army is made up of veteran Narmen warriors, armed in the finest plate and armed with deadly short swords and glittering pikes...other regiments from strange lands provide elephants, swift horsemen--perhaps even whole tribes of half-demon Centaurs, or something stranger...companies of archers, dark-skinned and bearded, wearing tall helmets of emerald and silver, their great bows of fine dark wood. Armoured regiments of amphibious lizard-men infantry, with dark green scales, and white bellies, mouths full of gleaming teeth....Robed wizards, using unknown magics, raising cities and towers, and even building great, stone pyramids, towering over the sands of the Bright Desert, building roads, and fortresses as the army marches forward, seeking new, fertile lands to conquer.

Iuz can be killed, captured, or exiled by a coup of a powerful cambion, or some demon lord, or perhaps an epic-level dragon, and his powerful family of lesser dragons moves in, and sets up a new kingdom. In the aftermath, Iuz's empire is fractured into several smaller kingdoms and factions, all led by a different leader, each perhaps loosely allied, but vying for supremacy in the new order of things...or perhaps entirely at odds with the new demon lord, or dragon family....some of Iuz's old commanders ally with the new kingdom, while some rebel, and stand against the usurpers...while still smaller realms or kingdoms and baronies reach out to other nations and states, seeking to make alliances against the new groups of alliances, fighting over Iuz's legacy....possibilities abound, my friend!

I hope this has been of some help, and perhaps of interest.

Sincerely,

SHARK

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

. . . and has really been a literary and game-corpse for many years now, and it will never get better.

Would that make tens of thousands of gamers playing Living Greyhawk and their volunteer administrators and authors, on some level, necrophiliacs? You know, playing around with game-corpses and all.

 

[haakon1]

In the published setting, Iuz sucks the oxygen from the room for other villains. FtA actually expanded this sucking effect - no more Horned Society, the BKs compromised.
. . .
The Scarlet Brotherhood is even worse. They were cool, secret plotters composed of thieves, assassins and monks. FtA outted them and there is not a closet big enough for them to ever get back inside. They virtually control the southern seas and actually control or struggle to retain control is several former independent countries. The worst effect of the SB was the destruction of the independence of the Hold of the Sea Princes, one of GH's best adventure incubators.
. . .
I'd go father and add Turrosh Mak and the lame Orcish Empire of the Pomarj which compromised the greatest adventure incubator of the Flanaess - the Wild Coast. Turrosh needs his Mak handed to him on the way to the dust bin of GH history.

All true, and among the myriad lamenesses by From the As*ses. Never confuse it with actual Greyhawk.

Amongst all this vandalism, what grieves me the most is the hand-waving overruling of possible PC success in the G123D123Q1 superadventure by saying Geoff and Sterich fell to the giants after all, no intervention possible.

This is the equivalent Carl Sargent starting "Lord of the Rings IV" with "So, after the fall of Gondor to the unstoppable forces of the dark lord . . . "

 

[haakon1]

I've kind of tired of deities being "the plot." . . . It's like saying your bad guy doesn't have any motive, he's just insane.

QFT. That goes for demon lords too. Iuz though (in Gygaxian times) was alright because he was half-human, not superpowerful, and had only one little pissante country. Threatening, but ignorable, that's how he should have remained.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

QFT. That goes for demon lords too. Iuz though (in Gygaxian times) was alright because he was half-human, not superpowerful, and had only one little pissante country. Threatening, but ignorable, that's how he should have remained.

Except for Iuz in the Gygaxian novels and the Gygaxian "From the Sorcerer's Scroll" dispatches?

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I've only read a few of Shark's posts, but I find that I like them a lot. Virutally every word is infused with energy and ebullience.

EDIT - Oh, and Shark has good ideas, too.

 

[Aeric]

The only thing I don't like about the GH setting are some of the names. I mean, Furyondy? Ivid? The Duchy of Jeff? Whenever I run or play in GH, the game stumbles a bit when we get to one of these silly names. Which is not to say other settings don't suffer from similar bad choices in naming--whoever decided it was a good idea to call followers of Eberron's Silver Flame "flamers" should be taken out back and shot--but GH seems to have an abundance of them. Other than the names, it's a great setting. I like that it's a toybox for DMs to play with instead of a strictly ordered and defined world. And it has it's own distinct flavor which works well with D&D--fitting, since it's the default setting for the game. The APs in Dungeon, especially Age of Worms, have made me a GH fan.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

The only thing I don't like about the GH setting are some of the names. I mean, Furyondy? Ivid? The Duchy of Jeff? Whenever I run or play in GH, the game stumbles a bit when we get to one of these silly names. Which is not to say other settings don't suffer from similar bad choices in naming

I actually don't see how any of those named are all that silly (and it's Geoff, by the way). Matter of fact, one could find pretty much a limitless number of more strange or funnier-sounding place names in the real world.

 

[thedungeondelver]

All true, and among the myriad lamenesses by From the As*ses. Never confuse it with actual Greyhawk.

Amongst all this vandalism, what grieves me the most is the hand-waving overruling of possible PC success in the G123D123Q1 superadventure by saying Geoff and Sterich fell to the giants after all, no intervention possible.

This is the equivalent Carl Sargent starting "Lord of the Rings IV" with "So, after the fall of Gondor to the unstoppable forces of the dark lord . . . "

Hello! Thank you! See, that right there is what's wrong with building some kind of metaplot on to GREYHAWK and then mercilessly advancing it.