Are the Scarlet bro's and Iuz holding GREYHAWK back?

[Prince of Happiness]

I actually don't see how any of those named are all that silly (and it's Geoff, by the way). Matter of fact, one could find pretty much a limitless number of more strange or funnier-sounding place names in the real world.

For example, the mountain range known as the Grand Tetons (Grand Teton National Park):

"The mountains were named by a French trapper who viewed them from the Idaho side of the range and called them tétons, French slang for "nipples" (presumably referring to the shape of the peaks)." - from Wikipedia

Having a place called the Duchy of Geoff or the Barrier Peaks pales in comparison.

 

[Gez]

I actually don't see how any of those named are all that silly (and it's Geoff, by the way). Matter of fact, one could find pretty much a limitless number of more strange or funnier-sounding place names in the real world.

Not to forget other naming conventions of the real world, like "each place must have a dozen different names, all of which, with maybe one or two exceptions at most, must be shared with other places" so that you can have a Paris in Texas and a London in Ontario. If I say "Albany", am I speaking about Albania or about Scotland? Or maybe one of the many cities and counties with that name in the USA, Canada or Australia.

Even funnier, you can have a country named "New Zealand" but where is the old Zealand? It's a danish island. I'm sure you'd never find names like New Zealand in roleplaying settings.

 

[jolt]

GH was pretty much the only published setting I ever liked. Kingdoms of Kalamar wasn't bad but I bought it mainly because it was the setting that most reminded me of Greyhawk.

I still think Greyhawk is a viable setting for publication (though WotC clearly disagrees). There is absolutely no need for a metaplot or an advancing of the timeline. I agree with Klaus, you could make supplements for years without advancing the timeline one day. Greyhawk is a lot like the Island of Harn; a small part of a vastly larger world, yet detailed enough that you could run multiple campaigns just there and not get bored.

A "generic" setting should be: no metaplot but lots of options. Greyhawk is the tip of a very large iceberg where only the smallest fraction of options available has been touched. Not every DM has the time to create and manage a homebrew setting; I'm guessing that most don't (and certainly not to the level of detail a published setting provides). Greyhawk, as a published setting, could easily provide a plethora of material for years and years without introducing an advancing timeline or an over-arching storyline.

In any case, I think it's silly to use, as a game's generic setting, something that is almost completely OOP and that anyone who hasn't been playing the game for 15+ years is going to have to track down some fansite just to undestand what these "generic" references are referring to.

jolt

 

[the black knight]

Greyhawk is just fine the way it is. Now get!!!!

 

[qstor]

The gears of his empire roll on, but word is that he hasn't been seen in Dorakaa for some time. With Iuz away the mice shall play. When he comes home . . . let's hope it does not happen soon.

It can't be SOON enough. The dragon based Iuz metaregional LG plotline makes NO sense canon wise IMHO Bring back Iuz and the Boneheart.

Mike

 

[Erik Mona]

The idea of making Iuz "disappear" is a pretty good one, actually. There was ample opportunity for same in the aftermath of "Vecna Lives," but it shouldn't be too difficult to pull off in modern times. "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk" even offers a few possibilities in this regard.

I think the "exposure" of the Scarlet Brotherhood is perhaps less a problem (to the degree that either of these things are problems, which is debatable). Yes, they are exposed, but the Horned Society can fairly easily slide into the role of secret society with little trouble.

The problem with Greyhawk, honestly, is that it is not actively supported and has no core setting book to establish the baseline with readers. There is obviously an audience for such a product, but until the demand lines up with the strategic interests of Wizards of the Coast, I seriously doubt such a product will ever come to pass.

Lots of Eberron books are available, though.

--Erik

 

[Prince of Happiness]

The idea of making Iuz "disappear" is a pretty good one, actually. There was ample opportunity for same in the aftermath of "Vecna Lives," but it shouldn't be too difficult to pull off in modern times. "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk" even offers a few possibilities in this regard.

I think the "exposure" of the Scarlet Brotherhood is perhaps less a problem (to the degree that either of these things are problems, which is debatable). Yes, they are exposed, but the Horned Society can fairly easily slide into the role of secret society with little trouble.

The problem with Greyhawk, honestly, is that it is not actively supported and has no core setting book to establish the baseline with readers. There is obviously an audience for such a product, but until the demand lines up with the strategic interests of Wizards of the Coast, I seriously doubt such a product will ever come to pass.

Lots of Eberron books are available, though.

--Erik

That just reminded me...Iuz vanishing, it wouldn't be the first time it happened. Zagyg made it happen the first time, until some meddlesome kids adventurers mucked it all up. I wish the Horned Society got more love for the setting though. I wonder if they were more-to-the-point casualties of the 2E Mad Mother-Syndrome house cleaning.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

It can't be SOON enough. The dragon based Iuz metaregional LG plotline makes NO sense canon wise IMHO Bring back Iuz and the Boneheart.

Well, the material for a draconic influenced storyline was always there in the Iuz Border States metaregion. I mean one of the most iconic draconic personalities once made its nest in the metaregion *cough*Dragotha*cough*. Building a story out of it that affects Perrenland, Furyondy, Highfolk and the Vesve Forest, The Shield Lands, and the Bandit Kingdoms for a three year story arc is another thing entirely. Speaking as a returned triad in the affected metaregion I can say that the material is there . . . it just isn't as in your face as Iuz and his empire. I mean, the metaregion is afterall named after Old Wicked himself.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Which is not to say other settings don't suffer from similar bad choices in naming--whoever decided it was a good idea to call followers of Eberron's Silver Flame "flamers" should be taken out back and shot

They're not called that. Members of the Church of the Silver Flame are called "Sanctified", and the closest any term related to the church comes to "flamer" is "Flamic" art and architecture.

You're mistaking thoughtless fan terminology for canon, I think.

 

[fusangite]

The problem with Greyhawk, honestly, is that it is not actively supported and has no core setting book to establish the baseline with readers. There is obviously an audience for such a product, but until the demand lines up with the strategic interests of Wizards of the Coast, I seriously doubt such a product will ever come to pass.

Thanks for bringing this thread into contact with reality, Erik.

Now, that stated, I think the best way to send an excellent published setting to hell is to start advancing time in it. This is how Runequest/Hero Wars' Glorantha ran aground in the 1990s; when it was 1620 everywhere and the future was a blank canvas, I was happy to play in that world. Let's put it this way: I have never seen a setting improved by the authors advancing time as they produce more books.