Are we, as a wider community, nasty?

[saskganesh]

Yeah, we're not nasty. We are rude and badly behaved -- towards each other -- in various silos scattered across the internet. A lot of this, is because, internet. Some of the worst discussions that are conducted online would be much more civil if they were held face-to-face.

 

[Dethklok]

Weird stuff, watching an argument I just saw spread across G+, Twitter, and Facebook. Sometimes I think the "nastiness" exhibited by RPG fans is a sign of a damaged community. I've seen it for 15 years, and been on the receiving end of it dozens of times. Then I think that perhaps the awesome part of us that lets us not grow up and enjoy escapism and gaming and pretending to be elves is the exactly same part as the really nasty part of us that lets us not grow up and be as cruel as children are to each other.

Hi Morrus. I vacillated a lot about posting this. But, I don't think that the nastiness in the RPG community is anything like children picking on each other. Kids insult one another's clothes, or friends, or looks, and then life goes on. It's true that sometimes they bully one another, but outside of actual persecution, they generally handle nastiness.

The gaming community is nasty in a different way: Gamers are hypersensitive, and feel vindicated about dumping on people they perceive to have violated group norms. Unfortunately it's extremely difficult to know a priori what these norms are, since they vary from year to year and group to group. I post on all kinds of forums now and then, and I don't run into this kind of thing outside of rpg forums. Even on political forums and religious forums where people regularly argue about the merits of religion or political platforms, people at the end of the day can say "Hey, it's cool you at least agree with me about something."

There was one major rpg forum I posted on where I watched three separate guys make straightforward comments or, worse, lighthearted jokes, before being pounced on and shoed away. One of them was unlucky enough that everyone went to the moderators, who handled it by publicly belittling him and then deleting his account. I couldn't find him anymore even to say "hey, how's it going, sorry everyone was crazy." He was scrubbed for saying something unpopular for that time and place, and that's that. I've never seen anything like it anywhere else on the internet - except on other rpg forums.

Now, I wouldn't say that gaming as a hobby is in trouble because of this. Who knows; it may even strengthen bonds in the community to keep passions high. But it definitely alters how much I'm willing to say. There's a lot of joking around that I'd love to do even around here, but when I think of something funny I usually get this sinking feeling and realize that people won't take it with a grain of salt. When I walk around gamers, I know to put on my eggshell shoes first!

Then I remember that football fans stab each other, so there's that perspective, at least. We're actually not that bad, relatively speaking.

Yes... although I don't think that reflects well on the gaming community that one needs to point out that, hey, at least we don't usually physically attack one another, right?

Before I take off, I'll mention one more thing: This forum is a guilty pleasure for me. People who know I post here rib me for even hanging around you guys; my arguments that "Well, EN world at least has good moderators, and they're really not as bad as the gamers at other forums" are generally laughed at. You can make of that what you will.

 

[Lwaxy]

I have experienced a lot less nastiness in RPG (and Star Trek) circles than anywhere else. Even the Star Wars fan circles have shown some degree of evil that has been surprising. I'm not even going into rpg/multiplayer sims (where there is only one that turned out pleasant enough for me to stick with) or even browsergames and, yes, video games in general.

Yeah there will always be fights. I avoid a lot of the (English) RPG forums (German forums have a different style altogether). I remember running from RPG.net before I signed up

But as gamerprinter has mentioned, convention places tend to view gamers as a nice change in pace compared to their usual customers. And that's telling a lot.

 

[Morrus]

Allow me to illustrate what is wrong with the RPG community:

Warning: lots of naughty words.

http://wondrousimaginings.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/just-how-big-is-osr-getting.html?m=1

(This didn't prompt the thread - it's an example posted since).

 

[TrippyHippy]

There are a couple of issues really. Firstly an aspect of adolescence amongst gamers themselves, where gamers can't accept that a game is just a game and ascribe importance beyond this, along with the passionate intensity that goes along with all that. For me to say, for example, that "D&D is rubbish" may just be a throwaway comment, but to others it's a personal insult. The other aspect, that exacerbates this somewhat, is the internet communication itself. Without facial contact, and immediate nuanced feedback someone may not be aware of the hurt that their comments may be making, and don't have a check-mechanism for reducing conflict in a way they would if they were talking in person. It's not an exclusive aspect of RPG geekery (go and look at comments on movie sites!)

I do feel that particular sites have questionable moderation at times too. ENworld is well blessed in this sense, as it's moderation is very professional and non confrontational. Other sites, however, tacitly encourage bad behavior by administers becoming part of the conflict - taking sides, quick-fix bans and a superior attitude to the posters themselves.

 

[Lwaxy]

Allow me to illustrate what is wrong with the RPG community:

Pretty tame example of one guy who probably has issues dealing with any sort of authority in RL, too (he seems to be taking too many drugs, anyway). I barely shrugged. Not relevant to the RPG masses

 

[tomBitonti]

Allow me to illustrate what is wrong with the RPG community:

Warning: lots of naughty words.

http://wondrousimaginings.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/just-how-big-is-osr-getting.html?m=1

(This didn't prompt the thread - it's an example posted since).

That blog posting I take as evidence for one person being a dick for effect, and only as evidence as regards to the blogger, and to no other person.

Strange that he would hit up this site for its view of 4E. He seems to be upset that folks here were not (as a whole) against 4E as much as is he the blogger.

Anyways, one person representing only himself.

Thx!

TomB

 

[Cadence]

Are we, as a wider community, nasty?

Certainly haven't seen that at all here (thank you, the mods, and everyone else here!).

If you need some uplifting from elsewhere in the wider community, have you checked out the follow-up threads to round 1 of RPG Superstar over on Paizo's message-boards? I've been pleasantly amazed at how uniformly encouraging and helpful the posters there have been. And even the supposedly negative "Voter's incessant ramble" thread that was going on during the voting seemed downright congenial for the most part.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Allow me to illustrate what is wrong with the RPG community:

Warning: lots of naughty words.

http://wondrousimaginings.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/just-how-big-is-osr-getting.html?m=1

(This didn't prompt the thread - it's an example posted since).

If this is the metric for "nasty" then I hope no one here ever has to experience REAL nastiness.

Online arguments, even heated ones, barely break the unpleasantness meter, much less head down the nasty road.

Most people are unable to see how crazy thier own brand of tribalism is to outsiders. A normal pleasant lengthly debate of the merits of various rpg systems seems like an engaging enjoyable experience for us, but to a non-gamer looking at all the time and thought we put into what are essentially kids games, we appear quite a bit nutty. Now escalate that debate to even a civil argument and we are full blown looneys.

Oftentimes, people won't bring up what really bothers them or express true feelings until a discussion gets a bit heated up. This is the point in the conversation where the cards are on the table and meaningful exchanges can take place. It is also sadly, the point at which the subject matter is fumbled and lost in personal attacks. It is natural that our interests and outlooks, even for trivial things become part of our identities and during the heat of discussion any assault on those interests is a personal attack.

It is also safe to say that the internet magnifies any unpleasantness by a factor of 10 or more. I am rarely surprised at what someone will say from behind thier keyboard bunkers these days. In many ways it serves as a virtual consequence-free therapy. The opportunity to blurt out an unflitered stream of conciousness and just get it out is often an irresistable lure for some who have no other outlet.

Overall, based on both the online and in-person interactions with quite a few members of the gaming community I would say that we are actually quite decent to each other as a whole. If we were not then the incidents of unpleasantness wouldn't be so noteworthy.

 

[Morrus]

If this is the metric for "nasty" then I hope no one here ever has to experience REAL nastiness.

Online arguments, even heated ones, barely break the unpleasantness meter, much less head down the nasty road.

Well, yeah. It's not physical violence or anything. Nobody's comparing it to that.