Are we, as a wider community, nasty?

[ExploderWizard]

Well, yeah. It's not physical violence or anything. Nobody's comparing it to that.

Physical violence is a whole new level of nasty. I'm talking about the kind of nasty you find in political shouting matches that START with personal attacks and go downhill from there.

 

[Morrus]

Physical violence is a whole new level of nasty. I'm talking about the kind of nasty you find in political shouting matches that START with personal attacks and go downhill from there.

Sure. There are always worse things than everything. Well, other than the single worst thing, whatever that is.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Physical violence is a whole new level of nasty. I'm talking about the kind of nasty you find in political shouting matches that START with personal attacks and go downhill from there.

I live in a corrupt third world country and enjoy commenting on the politics and the corruption on Facebook. And I do get serious, legitimate death threats.

 

[Roland55]

Allow me to illustrate what is wrong with the RPG community:

Warning: lots of naughty words.

http://wondrousimaginings.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/just-how-big-is-osr-getting.html?m=1

(This didn't prompt the thread - it's an example posted since).

OK. That is nasty -- no argument there.

Seen much worse in the "real world," I'm sorry to say.

 

[Razjah]

I don't think nasty is the right word. I've seen people get defensive, and lash out. I've seen lots of passionate posts taken the wrong way. I've seen loads of people helped out by other posters with links and tips.

So.. sometimes? I think like any large enough group we have a bell-curve of personalities. This curve includes niceness. As a community we're a bit all over the place, but pretty good overall.

Although, I would not challenge a community effort to make the gamer culture nicer.

 

[Nellisir]

Allow me to illustrate what is wrong with the RPG community:

Warning: lots of naughty words.

http://wondrousimaginings.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/just-how-big-is-osr-getting.html?m=1

(This didn't prompt the thread - it's an example posted since).

Well, if he got a perma-ban over this, which seems to be the report, I think it's a bit much. It's rude, unfiltered, personal opinion, on his blog. He doesn't call anyone out except to compliment PirateCat. He doesn't think highly of EN World, but he doesn't seem to think highly of RPG.Net either. I don't see the big deal. if he posted that on ENW, yeah, ban, OK. But out there on his blog? Nah. It ain't even personal.

On the scale of evil, I'd rank it less evil than stepping in dog poo.

 

[howandwhy99]

The whole hobby is full of dissension right now and extraordinary levels of self-assuredness.

To put it simply: for 30+ years RPGs were almost exclusively pattern recognition games with the D&D game being first among all of those. Then everything was turned on its head and everyone was told RPGs and role playing in particular were storytelling.

Neither are absolute certainties.

This isn't a reality where a small group of individuals attempted to bring a new manner of gaming in the world. It's one where all manners of gaming have been reassigned to a single, irrevocable, inescapable variety of game.

And, of course, there's an inevitable counter-revolution. There is truly deplorable and self-righteous behavior online and in person by individuals regardless of their preferences. It doesn't matter what flag you're waving.

I've read a lot of RPG.net, OSR blogs and boards, and storygames.com and other storygamer theory hangouts. Each has its unreflective, nasty individuals not capable or not choosing to see their hurtful behaviors upon others simply because they don't believe the same as they do.

ENWorld more than any other site I know of is actually diverse. It has many, many kinds of gamers who play a lot of different games. We aren't nasty here. It may only appear so because we aren't as homogenous as so many other sites. There is actual learning going on here even amongst the disagreements. Listening. Caring. Friendships even.

I don't want the RPG world to be as unbelievably close-minded as it has become either. So insular and shut off to any opposing ideas. I would like us to celebrate story and pattern recognition RPGs as well as any other kind anyone else cares to bring forth.

I think we should be proud we are as different in our thinking, games, and play as we are.

 

[TrippyHippy]

The whole hobby is full of dissension right now and extraordinary levels of self-assuredness.

To put it simply: for 30+ years RPGs were almost exclusively pattern recognition games with the D&D game being first among all of those. Then everything was turned on its head and everyone was told RPGs and role playing in particular were storytelling.

There was certainly a nasty element that went with that whole 'game theory' culture over the last 15-20 years or so. I don't necessarily think that individuals are bad, but anything wherein you start trying to categorize gamers into types, even just by implication, is going to inevitably end in division. Of course, it's worth noting that this type of commentary grew out roughly during the same period that the internet grew. As such, we don't know that gamers of previous generations would have found other topics to become intensely aggressive about, but didn't have the means for mass communication. The infamous article written by the game designer who claimed playing Vampire: The Masquerade would literally give you "brain damage" does take the biscuit though.

With regards to certain websites, like RPG.net, their administration is abysmal frankly. They have an infraction and banning list as long as the Nile, sometimes given with little or no explanation and frequently delivered with a glib or condescending remark to boot. I've received expletive-ridden private messages from administrators before when I've questioned their decisions. Many of us have been in heated arguments online at some time, but the contrast in the way this site calmly and respectfully handles it, compared to sites like RPG.net, is light years apart. And it does make a difference to the way gamers talk to each other, I feel.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

The whole hobby is full of dissension right now and extraordinary levels of self-assuredness. (snip)

Honestly, I think the snark has always been there.

Go back and look at The Strategic Review and certain Gary Gygax-penned editorials in The Dragon/Dragon. One True Way-ism and general superciliousness have been with us for nearly 40 years....

(snip) With regards to certain websites, like RPG.net, their administration is abysmal frankly. They have an infraction and banning list as long as the Nile, sometimes given with little or no explanation and frequently delivered with a glib or condescending remark to boot. I've received expletive-ridden private messages from administrators before when I've questioned their decisions. Many of us have been in heated arguments online at some time, but the contrast in the way this site calmly and respectfully handles it, compared to sites like RPG.net, is light years apart. And it does make a difference to the way gamers talk to each other, I feel.

(Bold is mine.)

You're not alone!

I think Eric's institution of the Eric's Grandmother rule at the very beginning of what became ENWorld really was a masterstroke in terms of promoting a less nasty forum experience. I'm really pleased that Morrus et al have kept to that rule.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The whole hobby is full of dissension right now and extraordinary levels of self-assuredness.

Compared to what? Gygax in Dragon? White Wolf players looking down on D&D players?

To put it simply: for 30+ years RPGs were almost exclusively pattern recognition games with the D&D game being first among all of those. Then everything was turned on its head and everyone was told RPGs and role playing in particular were storytelling.

That's not how I remember the 90s where all the creative energy went into White Wolf and the Storyteller system. And D&D was played as a lowest common denominator system. (Not that I want 90s railroads back - but to say that White Wolf and its storytelling wasn't extremely prominent in the 90s is to miss the spirit of the 90s).

ENWorld more than any other site I know of is actually diverse. It has many, many kinds of gamers who play a lot of different games. We aren't nasty here. It may only appear so because we aren't as homogenous as so many other sites. There is actual learning going on here even amongst the disagreements. Listening. Caring. Friendships even.

I'd have said RPG.net was far more diverse than ENWorld, myself.

But agreed. All games bring something and it's all the same hobby.