D&D 5E Arguing, ideating and solution-seeking on the D&D Enworld forum

[Filthy Lucre]

Everything is an argument.

I, personally, do not come to this forum or any forum to have 'conversation'. None of you are my friends and I don't particularly care about any of your opinions/tastes/preferences.

I come here, specifically, for TTRPG news and to argue, analyze, and debate concepts and occasionally to get feedback on ideas or to find the answer to a question. Anytime someone puts forth a statement that does not express a matter of taste, they are making an argument - usually they're saying that something is true.

Maybe some people just want to have a space where they can say "I believe that X is true" but don't want to have to justify or explain their position. Fine, whatever; I don't really understand the point of just shouting words into the void, but some people seem to like to do it. I'm actually doing that right now, but this thread explicitly was asking for people's opinions/tastes/preferences, so I don't feel too bad about it.

 

[FrogReaver]

This kind of discussion - not you in particular, Umbran, but the whole sub-thread you're replying to - is what I was complaining about earlier.

Every definition given is fine, and it would be way more productive to just accept someone's definitions and go from there. Part of what makes the threads turn into to arguments rather than discussions is that people won't accept a proffered definition and roll with it. "Yes, and..." should apply.

I don’t think we should just go with the first preferred definition though. Because then discussion just becomes about who responds the quickest.

Oftentimes the start of the argument is when person A uses the word in a different way than person B does and person B uses person A’s comment as a jump off point to say well Word X isn’t really Y it’s Z.

I’m all far accepting both definitions as valid. We are mostly all smart people here, so we can work our way through that difference. But when person B implicitly declares there definiton is the only one… that’s where problems begin.

 

[payn]

I don’t think we should just go with the first preferred definition though. Because then discussion just becomes about who responds the quickest.

Oftentimes the start of the argument is when person A uses the word in a different way than person B does and person B uses person A’s comment as a jump off point to say well Word X isn’t really Y it’s Z.

I’m all far accepting both definitions as valid. We are mostly all smart people here, so we can work our way through that difference. But when person B implicitly declares there definiton is the only one… that’s where problems begin.

When this comes up I'll try and clear up the definition differences. If person A maintains their uncommon definition or whatever, i'll drop that line of inquiry and just focus on the concept. I think folks really just need to learn the art of the disengage.

 

[FrogReaver]

When this comes up I'll try and clear up the definition differences. If person A maintains their uncommon definition or whatever, i'll drop that line of inquiry and just focus on the concept. I think folks really just need to learn the art of the disengage.

I would tend to agree but comments aren’t always islands either. If person A was making a point of which the meaning behind their use of a word was integral and person B undermines that point to establish their own point by simply saying the word doesn’t mean but instead means something else - then what should person A do?

Is it a fair response for him to make the case that his definition was valid?

 

[payn]

I would tend to agree but comments aren’t always islands either. If person A was making a point of which the meaning behind their use of a word was integral and person B undermines that point to establish their own point by simply saying the word doesn’t mean but instead means something else - then what should person A do?

Is it a fair response for him to make the case that his definition was valid?

Thats all part of the process. Some back and forth discussion will always be necessary. Though, after a dozen responses, what do you hope to accomplish? If maintaining an exact definition is integral and the concept, which can not be discussed otherwise, its time to leave person B behind and talk to persons C,D,E instead. As for person B, if person A is really out of line on their definition you wont be alone in your confusion. Walking away isnt going to redefine a word's definition in a single thread.

 

[CleverNickName]

"It's not my fault that my argument didn't win! This word has multiple definitions, so it's the word's fault!"

The trouble isn't the definition of select words; I think the problem is the idea of winning an argument on the Internet.

 

[MGibster]

I, personally, do not come to this forum or any forum to have 'conversation'. None of you are my friends and I don't particularly care about any of your opinions/tastes/preferences.

I'm not going to lie, I really thought we had something going here. But it doesn't mean anything to you, does it? It was all a lie!

It's quite okay that you're not here for conversation. I am. And while I don't know any of these people in real life, they are people in real life and I tend to care about people I'm conversing with.

 

[FrogReaver]

"It's not my fault that my argument didn't win! This word has multiple definitions, so it's the word's fault!"

I don't think the problem in that example isn't the definition of select words; I think the problem is the idea of winning an argument on the Internet.

or just maybe it’s about watching your point be dismissed for no good reason - for semantics instead of substance.

I think I see solution though and it’s something I’m very guilty of. But the solution is to not undermine others points just as a way to jump start conversation on your own ideas.

 

[MGibster]

One thing I've noticed is that people seem to get angry very quickly. Something as simple as stating, "I [don't] prefer ASI." and providing an explanation behind why will make some people angry. You don't even have to say "Those who don't agree with me about ASI are wrong!" for people to be angry that you have the temerity to give voice to your different preference. It sometimes feels as though we're locked in some sort of culture war.

 

[payn]

One thing I've noticed is that people seem to get angry very quickly. Something as simple as stating, "I [don't] prefer ASI." and providing an explanation behind why will make some people angry. You don't even have to say "Those who don't agree with me about ASI are wrong!" for people to be angry that you have the temerity to give voice to your different preference. It sometimes feels as though we're locked in some sort of culture war.

For a long time the gaming community was. Old habits die hard.