FourMonos
First Post
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Assassination 2: The Lost Children
[sblock=Skill challenge and continuing the adventure]
KarinsDad, I've noticed you don't like extensive up-front rolling, which seems contradictory to your professed dislike of time-wasting on multiple posts. I considered Stealth logical from the description I gave, so that 4M can decide if he wants to use it, request another roll (nature or perception maybe) or tell me it cannot be done. I'm kinda used to combat encounter / skill challenge / final combat in PbP by now, but all adventures are slow since the crash so maybe we should just skip ahead?
[/sblock]
Bellegon runs into the darkness following the goblins, not really caring if others follow. He's flushed with stolen power and healed enough that he doesn't consider goblins a credible threat. He returns some time afterwards in silence.
KarinsDad, I've noticed you don't like extensive up-front rolling, which seems contradictory to your professed dislike of time-wasting on multiple posts. I considered Stealth logical from the description I gave, so that 4M can decide if he wants to use it, request another roll (nature or perception maybe) or tell me it cannot be done. I'm kinda used to combat encounter / skill challenge / final combat in PbP by now, but all adventures are slow since the crash so maybe we should just skip ahead?
[/sblock]
Bellegon runs into the darkness following the goblins, not really caring if others follow. He's flushed with stolen power and healed enough that he doesn't consider goblins a credible threat. He returns some time afterwards in silence.
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[sblock=OOC]
If by "up front rolling" you mean "player deciding to roll skills out of the blue", then you are correct that I do not prefer it.
I think actual up front rolling is a good idea. As an example, when 4M asked for 3 skill rolls from each of the PCs at the start of this adventure segment.
But, there is a difference between up front rolling and the players deciding when their skills are applicable as opposed to the DM deciding it. By having the player decide when to roll the dice, it strongly influences the DM to handle the situation based on the results of the dice where the DM might not want to do so. The DM might not have wanted a roll. He might have wanted to just roleplay a situation, or he might want more details from the players before deciding how to handle a given situation.
I'll give you an example (which happened here on PBP a few years back, a game 4M and Neurotic was in). A player rolled an unasked for Diplomacy roll while treating an NPC like total crap. As DM, I didn't ask for a Diplomacy roll. The player rolled a natural 20, so he expected that the NPC would be fawning and such. Based on his roleplaying, I had the NPC become suspicious. Then, another player rolled a critical Bluff and it moved the man from suspicious to interested. But, the first player saw 2 critical dice rolls, the NPC not acting like he thought he should, and quit the game because he was not having fun. All because he rolled dice first instead of roleplaying first, and he was used to games where the dice dictated the outcome of events.
Another example, the DM describes an alleyway. Instead of the players describing what they are trying to accomplish and the DM responding, one player decides to search and roll Perception dice. The alleyway is lengthy with multiple (let's say 3) possible things to find. The DM knows of the multiple potential finds, but the player does not. If the player throws out an unasked for skill roll, which thing does the DM decide to use that roll for? The first, the second, or the third?
Say that there is a trap on the ground. The DM determines that the PCs cannot just find it accidentally without setting it off, that they have to actively search the ground.
But by having the player decide to roll the dice, say he rolls great, then we can get into a situation where the DM decides that (as you expressed it) it was logical that the PC was going to search the door and not the ground, but the player is wondering why his great Perception roll didn't notice the trap on the ground.
Do we use that same great Perception roll all of the way down the alleyway until something is found with that single roll?
The players do not know all of the details of the situation and environment. The DM does. So, the DM should be asking for skill rolls based on what the players want to do. Maybe 4M did NOT think that stealth was applicable for you. Maybe he didn't care how loud the PC was, he cared if the PC was perceptive enough to find the NPCs.
A skill challenge is a different beast. The DM is stating up front that he wants skill rolls (note: 4M talked about a skill challenge after you decided to roll a skill). So if a player attempts a skill in a skill challenge that the DM does not think applicable, then the DM can just say so, regardless of whether the player rolled ahead of time or not. There is an expectation that the players will be taking turns rolls skills in a skill challenge.
A combat encounter is a different beast. There is an expectation that the players will be taking turns rolling dice in a combat challenge.
This is just a personal preference of mine. Let the DM decide when the dice are required to come into play as opposed to the players trying to force the issue. The best way to do this is for the player to make a request to attempt a goal (like you did indicating that you wanted to find and question a slave) and let the DM decide the mechanics for that (a skill roll(s) is required and if so, which one(s); or the PC is automatically successful; or a skill challenge is needed, etc.). If a skill roll is required, the DM can speed that up in PBP by just rolling for the player when he posts his response.
Trying to cut to the chase by jumping into the DM's sandbox can become counterproductive as per the examples above. IMO. I'd rather that the DM decide the flow of the game as opposed to a non-asked for dice roll. JMO.
[/sblock]
If by "up front rolling" you mean "player deciding to roll skills out of the blue", then you are correct that I do not prefer it.
I think actual up front rolling is a good idea. As an example, when 4M asked for 3 skill rolls from each of the PCs at the start of this adventure segment.
But, there is a difference between up front rolling and the players deciding when their skills are applicable as opposed to the DM deciding it. By having the player decide when to roll the dice, it strongly influences the DM to handle the situation based on the results of the dice where the DM might not want to do so. The DM might not have wanted a roll. He might have wanted to just roleplay a situation, or he might want more details from the players before deciding how to handle a given situation.
I'll give you an example (which happened here on PBP a few years back, a game 4M and Neurotic was in). A player rolled an unasked for Diplomacy roll while treating an NPC like total crap. As DM, I didn't ask for a Diplomacy roll. The player rolled a natural 20, so he expected that the NPC would be fawning and such. Based on his roleplaying, I had the NPC become suspicious. Then, another player rolled a critical Bluff and it moved the man from suspicious to interested. But, the first player saw 2 critical dice rolls, the NPC not acting like he thought he should, and quit the game because he was not having fun. All because he rolled dice first instead of roleplaying first, and he was used to games where the dice dictated the outcome of events.
Another example, the DM describes an alleyway. Instead of the players describing what they are trying to accomplish and the DM responding, one player decides to search and roll Perception dice. The alleyway is lengthy with multiple (let's say 3) possible things to find. The DM knows of the multiple potential finds, but the player does not. If the player throws out an unasked for skill roll, which thing does the DM decide to use that roll for? The first, the second, or the third?
Say that there is a trap on the ground. The DM determines that the PCs cannot just find it accidentally without setting it off, that they have to actively search the ground.
But by having the player decide to roll the dice, say he rolls great, then we can get into a situation where the DM decides that (as you expressed it) it was logical that the PC was going to search the door and not the ground, but the player is wondering why his great Perception roll didn't notice the trap on the ground.
Do we use that same great Perception roll all of the way down the alleyway until something is found with that single roll?
The players do not know all of the details of the situation and environment. The DM does. So, the DM should be asking for skill rolls based on what the players want to do. Maybe 4M did NOT think that stealth was applicable for you. Maybe he didn't care how loud the PC was, he cared if the PC was perceptive enough to find the NPCs.
A skill challenge is a different beast. The DM is stating up front that he wants skill rolls (note: 4M talked about a skill challenge after you decided to roll a skill). So if a player attempts a skill in a skill challenge that the DM does not think applicable, then the DM can just say so, regardless of whether the player rolled ahead of time or not. There is an expectation that the players will be taking turns rolls skills in a skill challenge.
A combat encounter is a different beast. There is an expectation that the players will be taking turns rolling dice in a combat challenge.
This is just a personal preference of mine. Let the DM decide when the dice are required to come into play as opposed to the players trying to force the issue. The best way to do this is for the player to make a request to attempt a goal (like you did indicating that you wanted to find and question a slave) and let the DM decide the mechanics for that (a skill roll(s) is required and if so, which one(s); or the PC is automatically successful; or a skill challenge is needed, etc.). If a skill roll is required, the DM can speed that up in PBP by just rolling for the player when he posts his response.
Trying to cut to the chase by jumping into the DM's sandbox can become counterproductive as per the examples above. IMO. I'd rather that the DM decide the flow of the game as opposed to a non-asked for dice roll. JMO.
[/sblock]
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Neurotic
I plan on living forever. Or die trying.
[sblock=Dice rolling]
I remember that one.
I'm usually not against players rolling, DM has final authority to decide how to use them, but that particular instance was an example of bad RP.
Still, DM can ask for more details before using the roll (as in the above perception example) or (if the roll is not applicable) ignore the roll (but he should be saying so, so the players don't scratch their heads too much)
[/sblock]
I remember that one.
I'm usually not against players rolling, DM has final authority to decide how to use them, but that particular instance was an example of bad RP.Still, DM can ask for more details before using the roll (as in the above perception example) or (if the roll is not applicable) ignore the roll (but he should be saying so, so the players don't scratch their heads too much)
[/sblock]
TwoHeadsBarking
First Post
Alexia looks up from tending her wounds, "I agree with Chael. We need to recover the ambassador's daughter, not waste time chasing goblins."
FourMonos
First Post
Bellagon appears out of the shadows much as he disappeared, without warning.
"There are more goblins that escaped deeper into the woods. I found several close by that were in a state of shock. The goblins were... marked. Burned with runes and sigils to the demons the gnolls and minotaurs worship. They were not fleeing from us, but from the palisade at their first opportunity."
The trek across the fields takes more time as the excitement of the chase passes.
It's well after dark when the heroes reach the farming village where they questioned the hamlet's residents quickly before trailing the ogres to the King's Forest.
Despite their speed with their mounts, the caravan has caught up with the heroes. The familiar wagons sit on the main road through the town. The familiar caravan leader is talking with a local when the heroes arrive.
"There are more goblins that escaped deeper into the woods. I found several close by that were in a state of shock. The goblins were... marked. Burned with runes and sigils to the demons the gnolls and minotaurs worship. They were not fleeing from us, but from the palisade at their first opportunity."
The trek across the fields takes more time as the excitement of the chase passes.
It's well after dark when the heroes reach the farming village where they questioned the hamlet's residents quickly before trailing the ogres to the King's Forest.
Despite their speed with their mounts, the caravan has caught up with the heroes. The familiar wagons sit on the main road through the town. The familiar caravan leader is talking with a local when the heroes arrive.
FourMonos
First Post
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The caravan leader walks forward to the adventurers, "You look like you've all had a long day and long ride."
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Neurotic
I plan on living forever. Or die trying.
In the mind of the caravan leader echoes quick update of the groups adventure:
"There was a small outpost of ogres and gnolls near the forest. They are, or rather, were, in league with the kidnappers. Unfortunately, we didn't get anything useful from there, but there want be any raids or resting place for others of their ilk.
You might consider telling your House to send someone to clean up and maybe set your own outpost here. There are goblin slaves about too. We would appreciate a rest, but we ride on in the morning."
In the minds of the group in quick succession:
"I've updated the caravan master on our adventure and the outpost. I said we will ride on in the morning. I hope that's alright with you. We don't have to show any relation or concern with him for the moment."
Leaving Cheal for the last, he first gently "knocks":
"May I? I will be short." and repeats the message only if Chael gives a nod or some other sign.
OOC: Illarion has high Insight and will study Chael - if he shows signs of hostility this will be last contact in this manner.
Out aloud he rasps:
"We've come a long way and would appreciate a place to sleep, caravan master. No trouble from us."
"There was a small outpost of ogres and gnolls near the forest. They are, or rather, were, in league with the kidnappers. Unfortunately, we didn't get anything useful from there, but there want be any raids or resting place for others of their ilk.
You might consider telling your House to send someone to clean up and maybe set your own outpost here. There are goblin slaves about too. We would appreciate a rest, but we ride on in the morning."
In the minds of the group in quick succession:
"I've updated the caravan master on our adventure and the outpost. I said we will ride on in the morning. I hope that's alright with you. We don't have to show any relation or concern with him for the moment."
Leaving Cheal for the last, he first gently "knocks":
"May I? I will be short." and repeats the message only if Chael gives a nod or some other sign.
OOC: Illarion has high Insight and will study Chael - if he shows signs of hostility this will be last contact in this manner.
Out aloud he rasps:
"We've come a long way and would appreciate a place to sleep, caravan master. No trouble from us."
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