D&D 5E Assassins, Alignment, and Archetypes

[doctorbadwolf]

That's partly why my Shadow Dash suggestion was a reaction that only had one option and triggered on hitting with an attack. A burst of speed specifically when you draw blood is pretty distinct from the rogue's more modest but reliable menu of options. Does the base assassin need the same sort of menu presentation for this feature? Or do they just need to run and hide really, really well? When they get the ability to intimidate people, is this really thematically similar enough to put under the same umbrella of "Shadow Action", or should it just be a new feature?

I’d rather have it be an addition to the same feature, because the wording necessary to make it work is better off not repeated every time. It’s much simpler to say, you can do this as a Shadow Move, than to fully describe the exact same mechanics of a Shadow Move. It’s also mechanically basically the same ability, so even if it’s thematically distinct I see no reason to make an extra named feature foe

Part of the trouble is that the maximum number of shrouds grows with level, so it actually gets harder and harder to max them as the character levels up. I ran into a similar problem with a class I was writing that built up a pool of rage dice. Ideally, you want it to max out at the same rate (or faster). To do this, you can set the maximum at a constant one, two, or three shrouds, and grow the damage per shroud with level, rather than the shroud count. Alternatively, you can grow the shroud count as before, but have a single shroud action apply (say) half maximum shrouds, or maximum shrouds if the target is vulnerable. Either way, the result is that the assassin can create a distinctive sort of rhythm, alternating between cautious set-up turns and wild explosive turns.

Could change the current “you can place 2 shrouds, if” to “you can place shrouds up to the maximum shrouds, if”.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I’d rather have it be an addition to the same feature, because the wording necessary to make it work is better off not repeated every time. It’s much simpler to say, you can do this as a Shadow Move, than to fully describe the exact same mechanics of a Shadow Move. It’s also mechanically basically the same ability, so even if it’s thematically distinct I see no reason to make an extra named feature foe

But if they're just bonus actions or reactions, the mechanics are already in place. A rogue who gets a new bonus action option doesn't need to have it spelled out that this is an addition to the Cunning Action feature. (Although I concede that the thief does do this.)

Could change the current “you can place 2 shrouds, if” to “you can place shrouds up to the maximum shrouds, if”.

Oh, another alternative: you can only spend one shroud per round rather than all of them. Balance per-shroud damage accordingly. So if you can study a creature for three rounds before combat breaks out and get three shrouds, that means you can go ham on them for three rounds straight, rather than just blowing all your shrouds in round one. Maybe you drop a creature by invoking shrouds, you can transfer remaining shrouds to a new target a la Hunter's Mark.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But if they're just bonus actions or reactions, the mechanics are already in place. A rogue who gets a new bonus action option doesn't need to have it spelled out that this is an addition to the Cunning Action feature. (Although I concede that the thief does do this.)

I actually forgot about moving it to a bonus action. Still, it annoys me irrationally when the rogue spells out the mechanics instead of just adding the thing to cunning action.
Also when the Paladin subclasses add a new aura that also scales at level 18, instead of saying “your Aura of whatever it’s called gains the following additional benefit.”

Oh, another alternative: you can only spend one shroud per round rather than all of them. Balance per-shroud damage accordingly. So if you can study a creature for three rounds before combat breaks out and get three shrouds, that means you can go ham on them for three rounds straight, rather than just blowing all your shrouds in round one. Maybe you drop a creature by invoking shrouds, you can transfer remaining shrouds to a new target a la Hunter's Mark.

My potential issue with that idea is that the idea of going ham round after round moves the class further away from assassination and makes it more like a fighter with a buildup mechanic. Also, most fights are basically over at least a round before they’re technically over, so do we want the assassin most powerful in the clean up phase?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So, going back to shadow moves...I really don't know. The flavor really is that you're doing this to disapear after ganking someone. If it's just a thing you can do as a bonus action, it's weirder. Like, one of the moves is gaining a 10ft speed boost and trying to hide. I do want assassins to be even better than sneaky rogues at stealth, which this helps with, but...its harder to balance if it isn't restricted to after you've hit a creature.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I gotta go back to my previous concerns about balance. If the Assassin is sneakier, speedier, better at single target damage, and better at sustained melee than the rogue...what are you leaving the rogue?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I gotta go back to my previous concerns about balance. If the Assassin is sneakier, speedier, better at single target damage, and better at sustained melee than the rogue...what are you leaving the rogue?

The only thing in that list that is even true is that they’re sneakier and better at sustained melee. They get fewer skills, fewer expertises, are only competitive with single target damage using a limited ability, etc.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Thinking about moving Deadly Parry to 6, but I don't think that getting your first major defensive ability that late is a good idea. Maybe split things up more like the monk, and put just the parry at level 4, and then the riposte at either 5 or 6.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I didn't see a limit to shrouds on target, so I may have missed that, but shrouds scale faster than sneak attack dice plus they are d10s instead of 6s.

Theoretically 20d10 vs 10d6 at Max.

Of course if you did have a Max per Target then nevermind.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

here is another draft, now with a full rough draft of the Guild of The Peryton.

I rearranged some lower level abilities to spread them out more, and make the class a little less front-loaded.

Blood in the cut's damage feature got pushed back to level 5, deadly parry got split into preternatural parry (just the defensive part) and deadly riposte (the counter-attack or move and hide feature).

I also moved Lethal to level 2, though now level 2 is a bit crowded with 2 features that require a choice and 1 that doesn't. Still, Lethal is core to the vision, and a ribbon at low levels.

The intimidation Shadow Move is now Terrible Display, and it comes in much later, at level 9.

I think this is a lot closer to a balanced and workable class that will be a lot of fun to play. The timing and action economy of Shadow Moves is still weird to me, but we will see how it feels in play.

What if placing a shroud is also a Shadow Move, and you can do a shadow move either as a bonus action, or 1/turn as part of your action, meaning you can do 2 per round, but most rounds you'll want 1 of those to be placing a shroud?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Or, perhaps, beginning at level 5, you can choose to either make an additional attack or use a Shadow Move without spending a bonus action? If you use a Shadow move you get some kind of bonus that makes it equal to making an attack?