attacking an area a little higher: blasts and bursts in 3D

[TheGlow]

Missile Command 2k8

 

[Zaruthustran]

When fun conflicts with the battlemat, the battlemat should give way.

This is not hard, people.

No question; I definitely agree. But this is the rules forum--if someone asks a rules question in this particular forum, the conversation should stick to the rules as written.

If the rules say that a power affects all creatures in a square, then all creatures in the square are affected. Full stop. Being prone does not give you an exemption.

Again, feel free to houserule in your game for max fun. Just be aware that you're not following the RAW. That's neither "good" nor "bad"; it merely is what it is.

If you want conversation on how to houserule, there's a forum for that too.

 

[Mouseferatu]

If the rules say that a power affects all creatures in a square, then all creatures in the square are affected. Full stop. Being prone does not give you an exemption.

Well, yeah. But then there's the fact that a standing creature likely occupies more than two vertical squares, while a prone creature shouldn't.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Well, yeah. But then there's the fact that a standing creature likely occupies more than two vertical squares, while a prone creature shouldn't.

Well, a medium creature only ever occupies one square--even if he's 10' tall. And even if prone, a medium creature completely occupies its square.*

But yeah, for a large creature, you could aim your spell in such a way that only the "upper" squares are affected. Any small or medium size creatures (it doesn't matter if they are prone or not) below the AOE wouldn't get hit. We used to do that all the time vs. large creatures in 3E, and as far as I can tell it still works in 4E.

-z

* again, that's according to the RAW. Feel free to eschew however you want.

 

[Starfox]

Here's a specific example: I want to cast burning hands to hit a group of enemies, but my buddy is lying prone in the area (unconscious or otherwise). Can I shoot the effect slightly "higher" so that I hit all standing creatures but not prone ones? Say, 3' off the ground?

I'd allow it if your targets had a space of more than 1 square. Basically, you have to target whole cubes, but you can choose to pick squares anywhere. And a creature is also a cube - that space 3 dragon is actually 15'x15'x15'.

Then again, this is a pretty big penalty for big critters.

 

[Mouseferatu]

And even if prone, a medium creature completely occupies its square.

The funny thing is, this particular rule is fuzzy.

If you're knocked below 0, it's then possible for someone to occupy your space. If you then recover, you have to stand up into an adjacent space, because your square is occupied. If all adjacent squares are also occupied, you can't stand up.

But if your square can be occupied by someone else while you're prone (even if you have to be unconscious or helpless to begin the process), one could argue that prone creatures therefore do not occupy whole squares.

But now I'm twisting the rules into shapes they were never meant to hold. They're screaming in pain, and I'm starting to sound like Hypersmurf.

 

[frankthedm]

One old trick in 3.5 was to cast a fireball up in the air; since they were effectively spheres, you could target a smaller area that way (typically to avoid friendlies). Casting one 20' in the air hit only a single space.

Single space? Unless the DM ignored the grid, the 20' up bust singed a 2x2 square area at ground level.

In full 3d with grid, it is tricky to figure out which squares would roast, but here is an approximation

 

[Leatherhead]

I am going to get a headache over this.

After looking at the rules I realized bursts are cubes, but blasts are squares

 

[Ruin Explorer]

No question; I definitely agree. But this is the rules forum--if someone asks a rules question in this particular forum, the conversation should stick to the rules as written.

If the rules say that a power affects all creatures in a square, then all creatures in the square are affected. Full stop. Being prone does not give you an exemption.

Again, feel free to houserule in your game for max fun. Just be aware that you're not following the RAW. That's neither "good" nor "bad"; it merely is what it is.

If you want conversation on how to houserule, there's a forum for that too.

This is a really narrow-minded to the point of shennanigans interpretation of the purpose of this particular forum. Indeed, it's practically rules forum rules-lawyering!

The conversation should obviously START by considering the rules-as-written and then expand to cover alternate interpretations and/or house-rules. Starting in "house rules and fan-creations" is an entirely different thing. It implies you're already certain of the rule and have decided not to use it.

One thing which you're choosing to ignore from the rules-as-written, too, as that creativity is encouraged in 4E, and that mindless rules-following is discouraged. Good thing 4E's designers know this.

 

[thalmin]

Since a higher level feat allows something like you are proposing (better targeting of a spell), just casting high to miss a prone friendly should impose a hefty to-hit penalty to get the angles right. Still roll to hit the friendly, but double the penalty to hit him.