Attracting new people to gaming -- ideas and strategies

[DonTadow]

A lot of good points have been made in this thread, but I'm doubtful about how well a cartoon would work. The cartoons mentioned are Pokemon and Yu-Gioh. These cartoons and associated games have one very large thing in common: competition. The cartoons portray heroes to cheer for when they beat their enemies. The games support this attitude. If you make a D&D cartoon, and get all the kids around into playing a wizard or fighter and beating up that tribe of orcs or slaying the dragon, who among them would want to DM? After all, the cartoon they started on portrays the characters as heroes, but I don't see any way for it to portray DMing in a similar "cool" light. How to solve this? Good question.

That's a good question, perhaps some type of overlord type cool watcher guy who sets it up. I dont know.

I was in room 211 at table one prepping my 2pm slot when they announced the names of the various DMs. I was at the other table near the door, opposite your table. I had wondered who won that competition. I noted you are a laptop DM. Well done on the victory.

Thanks, it was a fun competition and I"m hoping to see more ennie people do it next year. I"m working on a website for the competition right now. I had a really fun group and just about every type of gamer was reprsented from the guy who doessilly things for attention to the thorough strategist.

 

[William Ronald]

WOW!

I had hoped to see some good ideas when I started this post, but I am impressed.

I tend to agree that the gaming industry needs to help in some fashion with getting new players. I think the goal of gaining new players is not to save a specific company or even the industry, but to introduce new people to a hobby that has brought many of us years of fun and introduced us to people whom we might not have met. (For example, because of this board, I have meet a few people on different continents whom I talk to about our hobby and other issues.) Possibly GAMA might be interested in sponsoring something like the WotC Delegate Program. As I understand it, people can sign up to run different games. So, possibly some people might sign up to run demonstrations of D&D, World of Darkness, or other games. Possibly each demo session might include some material associated with each game, and possibly a paper listing links to various free downloads. (I am not sure how the gaming industry could be involved in recruiting more gamers. However, I think that there is a desire of many people in the industry to bring more people to the gaming table -- and not solely for financial reasons.)

I think that good introductory products might be a way to help people get into gaming, along with organized leagues and demonstrations. I am unfamilar with the the current D&D Basic Game, and what it covers. Possibly publishers might want to think about producing versions of their games that are essentially "starter kits" that cover the early part of a character's adventures. (Hmm, perhaps some of the lower levels in D&D, maybe the early activities of characters in the World of Darkness, and maybe just prior to the first commitment to the Miskatonic University Psychiatric Institute or seeing how many classmates are left in the Miskatonic University Alumni Association annual meeting in the Call of Cthulhu game. )

I do not think it is necessary to change the nature of any game to make it more desirable to the public. An RPG competition could as easily involve teams, as opposed to individuals trying to achieve similar goals. This might be a way to reflect the cooperative nature of many RPGs.

A cartoon might work well in recruiting new gamers, as might a DVD showing what an RPG is. Possibly, if several companies wnat to participate in such an effort, different games might be demonstrated on a DVD -- along with different playing styles. (Most playing styles can be found in most rules systems. For example, a 2nd Edition group I wass with years ago had intense roleplaying sessions where much time was spent on gaining information and allies.)

Buttercup: I like the idea of the library program. I did something like this in high school, where a few gamers from my high school and I ran games at some local libraries. The new gamers also checked out books, increasing circulation. The program was so successful on one day that we kept having gamers from the local high school walk in to the library. The result: Three DMs ran an adventure for 40 characters. (I think it was a version of Keep on the Borderlands. Suffice it to say, it was tiring -- but fun.) I think we need to stress some of the positive aspects of our hobby: creative thinking, literacy, imagination, communication skills, math skills as well as cooperation. This may be a way to counter stereotypes about our hobby.

I also recall there was some talk about having an open air game during next Gen Con. This might be a way to gain some public exposure for our hobby.

Everyone, I am impressed at the quality of your ideas. Keep them coming. Maybe we can figure some way to implement some of them. I think that we have the desire to bring new people in, whether in groups or one at a time. We also have some great ideas.

 

[Hussar]

The dungen master in the cartoon should be a gnomish fat, mostly bald guy who reminds me a lot of Yoda.

Buttercup: I like the idea of the library program. I did something like this in high school, where a few gamers from my high school and I ran games at some local libraries. The new gamers also checked out books, increasing circulation. The program was so successful on one day that we kept having gamers from the local high school walk in to the library. The result: Three DMs ran an adventure for 40 characters. (I think it was a version of Keep on the Borderlands. Suffice it to say, it was tiring -- but fun.) I think we need to stress some of the positive aspects of our hobby: creative thinking, literacy, imagination, communication skills, math skills as well as cooperation. This may be a way to counter stereotypes about our hobby.

This is exactly what I'm hoping my World's Largest Dungeon project will turn into, if I can ever draw some DM's. I just suffered a bit of a setback as one just pulled out leaving three or four players ready to go and no way to get there. I'm really hoping to draw as many DM's as possible together and run the WLD concurrently online over OpenRPG. It's been very slow going though so far.

On another note though, perhaps online chat based gaming is a means for drawing players. With the artists available to WOTC and other publishers, you could make an incredibly visually appealing game. Market it to non-gamers as a means of getting into the game without having to travel any farther than their own PC. While it won't be able to directly compete with MMORPG's, it can still draw in new players. The success of various PbP sites and the release of pay to play programs like Ghost Orb means that there must be at least some interest in going this way. Grab a couple of famous people to DM games online. That might be a draw. "Game with the creators of the game" sort of thing.

Meh, what do I know?

 

[Tinner]

A lot of good points have been made in this thread, but I'm doubtful about how well a cartoon would work. The cartoons mentioned are Pokemon and Yu-Gioh. These cartoons and associated games have one very large thing in common: competition. The cartoons portray heroes to cheer for when they beat their enemies. The games support this attitude. If you make a D&D cartoon, and get all the kids around into playing a wizard or fighter and beating up that tribe of orcs or slaying the dragon, who among them would want to DM? After all, the cartoon they started on portrays the characters as heroes, but I don't see any way for it to portray DMing in a similar "cool" light. How to solve this? Good question.

That's easy enough.
When Fighter, Wizard, Rogue and Cleric are fully powered up, they unite to form Dungeon Master!
With all the powers of the individual classes combined into one powerful form. Dungeon Master weilds ultimate power over te dungeon, anishing monsters at will, and even changing the very layout of he dungeon itself with his god-like powers.

Dungeon Master would be the coolest character on the show.
The transformation sequence would signal the denoument of the episode, like it did on Voltron.

 

[William Ronald]

The dungen master in the cartoon should be a gnomish fat, mostly bald guy who reminds me a lot of Yoda.



This is exactly what I'm hoping my World's Largest Dungeon project will turn into, if I can ever draw some DM's. I just suffered a bit of a setback as one just pulled out leaving three or four players ready to go and no way to get there. I'm really hoping to draw as many DM's as possible together and run the WLD concurrently online over OpenRPG. It's been very slow going though so far.

On another note though, perhaps online chat based gaming is a means for drawing players. With the artists available to WOTC and other publishers, you could make an incredibly visually appealing game. Market it to non-gamers as a means of getting into the game without having to travel any farther than their own PC. While it won't be able to directly compete with MMORPG's, it can still draw in new players. The success of various PbP sites and the release of pay to play programs like Ghost Orb means that there must be at least some interest in going this way. Grab a couple of famous people to DM games online. That might be a draw. "Game with the creators of the game" sort of thing.

Meh, what do I know?

Don't knock your ideas down. I think that the efforts you mention to draw in new players are good ideas.

As for larger efforts, possibly GAMA or some companies might sponsor an effort to promote gaming -- with some grass roots support. So, perhaps if some one runs a demo of a D&D game, such an organization might have resources for such an effort, information on roleplaying games, and maybe a list of web resources on different games and perhaps a few free PDFs to download. Similarly, someone who demonstrates the World of Darkness game might give new players information about gaming in general, and information which will send them to different web sites for information.

So, if White Wolf, WotC and Green Ronin are part of such an effort through GAMA or another organization, they might have helped produce a brochure on role playing, might have some resources for a GM, and the GM could also pass out some information directing new players to the companies sponsoring an effort to recruit new people to gaming. I think different companies and systems can benefit from introducing people to gaming in general. If someone is familair with the concepts of gaming, they might be willing to try different games and learn more about the companies that produce products compatible for the games that they like. At the least, they would have some resources to learn more about different companies and games. Perhaps there might also be some way to put new gamers in touch with people in their communities or on line.

Keep the ideas, coming people!

(Hussar, I hope you DO find more GMs for the World's Largest Dungeon Project. Have you tried to recruit a few people in the Gamers Seeking Gamers forum at EN World?)

 

[Krug]

Well will be 'holding' a PBP over at the WoW forums. If you're interested in playing and have WoW the CRPG, check out this thread.

 

[Hussar]

Don't knock your ideas down. I think that the efforts you mention to draw in new players are good ideas.



(Hussar, I hope you DO find more GMs for the World's Largest Dungeon Project. Have you tried to recruit a few people in the Gamers Seeking Gamers forum at EN World?)

Done. Thanks, should have thought of that a while ago.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

So I think they should do something similar with RPG products. Put some D20s inside the Cereal Box,

that's a great way of bringing people to the hobby: choke them to death



AR

 

[Buzzardo]

This formula even worked to a lesser extent for Magic: the Gathering. The DCI's Pro-Tour has made MtG players feel that any of them could be the next winner, and that winning will net them some cold hard cash.

I realize that D&D is a fundamentally different kind of game, but if WotC were to devise some sort of tournament format that gave ANY player the feeling they could be the next big winner, and that being that winner would be a prize worth seeking.

Ahh but it's not. As the long running team advancement tournaments such as the D&D Open and the NASCRAG at gencon have shown, you can turn the game into a big competitive tournament. But there are soooooo many problems with the way the OPEN especially is being run. Here is a portion of a rant about the OPEN that I think is relevent to the current discussion, which I posted over on an OPEN thread at the Gencon forums:

********

My Rant: The open has completely lost it's soul. For years and years and years the open was the main reason I went to GenCon. Always been great. But now the Hasbro Marketing department writes the rounds, and their idiot lawyers oversee the administration.

It used to be by gamers for gamers, now it's by corporate types for profit. It's all about tie-ins. It has to be set in Ebberon so as to hawk that, and this year to hawk the flagging sales of the psionics stuff, it was a heavily psionics module. And of course they have to showcase the daylights out of the miniatures.

The last two years I have felt like ralphie from Christmas Story: A CRUMMY COMMERICAL!!!???

Now that being said, I am ALL about WOTC/Hasbro marketing the crap out of the game we all love... but for cryin' out loud: Am I the only one who sees that they are going about it all wrong?

1- turning the D&D open from a game into a commercial is effectively PREACHING TO THE CHOIR. Everyone playing the open at GenCon is by definition the hardest of the hard core and already owns all the WOTC books and 6 to 50 of every single miniature in the Minis line! Commercializing the open serves to do nothing but alianate the loyal base. I have the books. It is already bad enough that I have to haul the Triple-Combo of core rule books all the way across the country, but now I have to bring the eberron and psionics handbook too?? Then rather than play an enoyable game, I get to star in a commercial. No thanks.

2- I have been an avid gamer since 1979 at age 11. (Started with Top Secret and never looked back) I atended my first Gencon in 1986 (drove from Utah to Miluakee! (My buddies and I actually won the open in 1987, Woo Hoo!) But over the years, I have noticed something I am sure you all did. I was a kid when I started playing, and most players at gencon in the mid 1980s were also teenagers. Here we are 20 years later, and most of the people at GenCon are 30 somethings, just like me! The gamer population is aging. What on earth is WOTC/Hasbro doing to market this most wonderful of games to the next generations? Nothing!!!!!! Instead they WASTE THEIR TIME, RESOURCES and EFFORT selling to the converted at GenCon? In the 80's, every single comic book from Uncle Scrooge to the X-Men had a D&D advertisement on the inside back cover. Today? Nothing. Then we had a saturday morning cartoon for crying out loud! Today? JACK.

**********

Back to the point at hand: Wouldn't it be cool if WOTC made regional tournament qualifiers and ran them all over the place all year long? Winners receive cash prises, and get invited to further qualifiers and then the big national championships at Gencon? For serious cash awards. Not just about a hundred bucks worth of swag. I think it would pull in alot of new kids into the game if advertized properly. I have a vision of geeky kids all over the country standing up from their Xboxes and computer games, rubbing their bleary eyes and stepping out to their FLGS to check out how they can actually MAKE SOME MONEY at geeking out!

I could be wrong.

 

[Buzzardo]

See the "Kill Monsters & Win Money" link in my .sig. It's inspired by the "D&D for Cash" event Kurt Stoffer of BoneMan Press has run w/great success at Gen Con Indy the last two years. When I spoke to Kurt about doing it at So Cal, he thought it wouldn't work because there weren't enough players (1/6th as many as at Indy), which I'm going to try to overcome by working harder to promote the event.

I'll let you know whether this draws a good proportion of new players (So Cal is doing a good job of that in general.)

When you say "coming soon" does that mean GenCon SoCal 2005? I played Kurts tourney in Indy this year and my team took 2nd. But it was a total BLAST. I would love to play it in SoCal this year. I can bring along about 20 players. Please reply quickly, as registration starts tommorow!