D&D 5E Aura of the Guardian against damage that drops the paladin to 0?

[Salthorae]

The point is that Aura of the Guardians normally assumes that the Paladin is in no way associated with the damage being dealt and can therefore react to the situation.

If they are both in an AoE that blast them for the same damage and the damage is sufficient to knock out the paladin, how is he going to react to someone else's damage?

 

[jaelis]

If they are both in an AoE that blast them for the same damage and the damage is sufficient to knock out the paladin, how is he going to react to someone else's damage?

I would argue that the most sensible way to interpret the ability is that the paladin invokes the ability just before the damage is about to be dealt. Otherwise how is it ever possible for him to prevent the damage in the first place?

For example, suppose the other character was a first level wizard with 6 hp. Then the fireball in question would kill the wizard outright. In that case there is no possibility for the paladin to heal the wizard after the damage is dealt, it must really be prevented outright.

So I would say the paladin sees the fireball start to explode, instantly calls upon his power to shield the other character, and then takes all the damage in question.

 

[Salthorae]

Otherwise how is it ever possible for him to prevent the damage in the first place?

Magic?

For example, suppose the other character was a first level wizard with 6 hp. Then the fireball in question would kill the wizard outright

Ok? I’m not sure how this changes the discussion of reaction mechanics.

So I would say the paladin sees the fireball start to explode, instantly calls upon his power to shield the other character, and then takes all the damage in question.

I would say that is a very cinematic interpretation, but not one that follows the RAW reaction mechanics. It may be the RAI and WotC wasn’t clear enough in their wording for this Aura’s ability. But RAW: Reactions take place after trigger. Trigger for the aura is “when a creature takes damage within 10 feet of you”, therefore the fighter/wizard/whatever took the damage and then your aura transfers it to the paladin. In this scenario the paladin is also taking that same damage, at the same time (that’s how the rules work for AoE spells). If that drops the paladin to unconsciousness he can’t react and you have 2 potentially down PC’s. If it doesn’t drop him then the paladin CAN react and sock the other characters damage, likely knocking the paladin to unconsciousness but saving the other character.

FWIW I think that in the spirit of the ability I would also rule at my table that the paladin could ready an action and if they, with a knowledge roll, can identify a harmful spell being cast, I’d probably allow them to activate the aura using that readied action as a preemptive soak.

That would allow what you’re talking about but costing them their round’s action and potentially wasting it if the enemy can see the paladin position himself and not act and the enemy knows their abilities, it may influence his choices and he may not cast that fireball. I think that risk/action task is worth allowing a paladin with this aura to activate in a way not stated under the ability. Not RAW at all, but it fits the intention of the ability still I think.

 

[Bardbarian]

This is a major problem with the way reactions are worded. Almost no reaction works if it occurs after the triggering event concludes. Opportunity attack from leaving reach resolves when the target is out of melee reach. Counterspell a fireball? The fireball explodes killing everyone then is counterspelled. The only way this works is if the triggering event is resolved in the declaration of said event yet before the event fully concludes. Therefore in your example of a paladin aura the source of damage would occur setting events in motion and once the effect, in this case a fireball is cast yet no resolved in full the paladin could use the aura to absorb the damage before it is applied to the targets. Your Paladin would be knocked unconscious by the reaction then take an additional source of damage causing a failed death save by the actual explosion.

 

[Salthorae]

Neither of those examples (OA or Counterspell) speak to this discussion, they are specific reaction text that trumps the general rule.

OA specifically says that it happens as they start to move, interrupts and prevents movement. Counterspell specifically calls out that you take your reaction “as you see someone within 60 feet start to cast a spell” to prevent it.

The designers were aware of the issues you brought up related to reactions in those two circumstances and addressed them with text specific to those circumstances.

Other reactions work as described.

 

[Satyrn]

I don't know this ability - but from what y'all are saying it looks like it lets the paladin take damage instead of his ally?

I think I'd let it work, and if the paladin dropped to 0 from it, the fireball damage would count as a death save failure. If somehow my table felt that was too generous still, I'd count it as a death save crit failure.

 

[seebs]

Since the reaction has to happen before the other person is damaged (otherwise they would be taking damage and getting healed), I think the paladin takes the 25 points from the fighter, drops to 0, then takes 25 points, which is probably a death save failure.