D&D General Baldur's Gate 3 will now be releasing August 3rd on PC and September 6th on PS5, increased level cap, race & class details and more

[KEV777]

I'm sorry do you not like CRPGs lol?

There has never really been a CRPG after about 1996, and precious few RPGs of any description (JRPG, ARPG, Soulslike, etc.) which isn't stuffed to the gunnels with "insufferable NPCs". Even the beloved Witcher 3 is basically wall-to-wall deep pile insufferable NPCs.

I jest but seriously, it's sadly part of the genre. The few that are arguable are just combat sims.

The rose tint here is bananas.

Back when it came out I literally played 6 hours into BG2, then restarted with a fake-multiplayer game with 4 characters I'd created just so I didn't have to deal with the BG2 NPCs (I left space for a couple so I could do quests with minimal NPC nonsense).

Let's not pretend they were any different. If anything these guys are more chill and less shrill than that bunch.

I mean, it ties into being an ACTUAL CRPG, which a number of CRPGs really aren't, because they forgot the RP bit.

Monster-slayer simulators are cool but don't buy a CRPG if you want that. Buy D4 like you said.

I had a similar attitude in the early Early Access for BG3, but I'm sorry they're a lot better-written now. DOS2 was peak "beyond Bioware" in those departments, and initially BG3 was like that, but they've gone a huge distance to chilling everyone out. Hell, they re-wrote the whole of Wyll to make him less like that.

So I think this is a rather outdated perspective. Also if you mean Astarion just say Astarion. You can kill him if you like - you're well within your rights.

I also did the fake multiplayer game because I couldn't find a good mix of NPCs early game suitable for an evil party. Of course, it was still possible to to pull in all the characters you needed for any type of party - you just had to stick with it for a few levels.

I've also recently played through the entire series from BG1 to ToB+. So there are no rose colored glasses on when I say that BG3 NPC are measurably MORE annoying. I mean some of them need to be killed just for the uncanny valley and their stupid looking faces alone (and yes I do plan on killing some of them on the spot).

I think that if BG3 has an option to turn off cut scenes and use a simple dialog system it would help.

 

[KEV777]

That's an optimistic retelling. I replayed BG1 recently. It's a massive pain how there's no good cleric party member until you're way into the Cloakwood, which is stuffed with poison and nigh-impossible to get past without a cleric, and even then you find the guy at the end of a tough dungeon and he's a multiclass. So you can either bring Viconia into your party and just resign yourself to doing evil stuff every so often to keep her happy (and probably upsetting Ajantis in the process), or you can resign yourself to doing a full evil playthrough, putting up with the cartoonishly moustache-twirling cringeworthy 'evil' motivations and dialog of mid-90s RPGs.

I'm looking forward to something more in-depth personally. NPC party members with a bit more emphasis on the 'C', rather than just being mindless minions for you to order around. Though different strokes for different folks, and i can see why it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. But then again, I missed out on playing all the Dragon Age and Mass Effect games, so this will all be a bit new and novel to me.

I also replyed BG1 recently, and yes I do agree that there is a class / party makeup problem, but you certainly didn't have to wait until Cloakwood to get a good cleric. Branwen is a great addition to any party and you get her at the Nashkel Carnival.

I honestly find the older dialog of the 90s to be more entertaining than the cringeworthy and cliché filled dialog of the modern era. At least 90s dialog was self-aware.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Branwen is neutral. And was working for the slavers before she was petrified.

 

[Burnside]

I'm not sure how anybody can argue that BG1 and BG2 NPCs "didn't get in the way". Especially BG1.

- Incessantly nagging you to do their side quests, which are on very strict timers, and either leaving or physically attacking you when those timers expired, even if you were in the middle of a situation where it was completely unreasonable to complete their quest in time

- Forcing you to also take a second paired companion, and then having to arrange for that companion's "accidental" death if you didn't want them in the party

- Inability to recognize mitigating circumstances behind Reputation loss or gain, instead just leaving or attacking you because you're a -5 person or +5 person.

I also am baffled by the notion that BG3 dialogue is cliched, but BG1 & BG2 isn't? BG1 NPCs are cliches that can often be boiled down to one line ("I am a stereotypical nagging wife" "I have a Napoleon complex", etc.)

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I honestly find the older dialog of the 90s to be more entertaining than the cringeworthy and cliché filled dialog of the modern era. At least 90s dialog was self-aware.

I mean, let's be real, the 1990s dialogue is just bad. Objectively bad. It's absolutely cringeworthy and cliche-filled, and saying it isn't just showing your age rather than anything else. I played BG1 and BG2 a little recently. That is not good writing, and the writers themselves acknowledged it and how much they improved later on. As I've mentioned before, I wrote a review in 1999 of BG1, and one of my peeves with it was the horrible dialogue (as contrasted with Fallout 2, for example).

I mean some of them need to be killed just for the uncanny valley and their stupid looking faces alone (and yes I do plan on killing some of them on the spot).

I don't think any of the faces are in the uncanny valley myself, and I have extremely strong face perception and am hypersensitive to issues with faces (I know that's weird-as-hell claim but I do, I got an entire A-grade art A-level by leveraging it). I think this is 100% a "you" issue, not a writing or faces issue. It kind of seems like misanthropy might be involved here.

Also you know the fake-multiplayer thing works in BG3 as well, right?

I'm not sure how anybody can argue that BG1 and BG2 NPCs "didn't get in the way". Especially BG1.

- Incessantly nagging you to do their side quests, which are on very strict timers, and either leaving or physically attacking you when those timers expired, even if you were in the middle of a situation where it was completely unreasonable to complete their quest in time

- Forcing you to also take a second paired companion, and then having to arrange for that companion's "accidental" death if you didn't want them in the party

- Inability to recognize mitigating circumstances behind Reputation lost, instead just leaving or attacking you because you're a -5 person.

Exactly. This "didn't get in the way" claim is proof of rose-tinting.

 

[deganawida]

I had a similar attitude in the early Early Access for BG3, but I'm sorry they're a lot better-written now. DOS2 was peak "beyond Bioware" in those departments, and initially BG3 was like that, but they've gone a huge distance to chilling everyone out. Hell, they re-wrote the whole of Wyll to make him less like that.

So I think this is a rather outdated perspective. Also if you mean Astarion just say Astarion. You can kill him if you like - you're well within your rights.

Should tell you how long ago I tried it. I suppose I will need to reinstall again and see how they changed things. I did buy it a few years ago.

 

[KEV777]

I'm not sure how anybody can argue that BG1 and BG2 NPCs "didn't get in the way". Especially BG1.

- Incessantly nagging you to do their side quests, which are on very strict timers, and either leaving or physically attacking you when those timers expired, even if you were in the middle of a situation where it was completely unreasonable to complete their quest in time

- Forcing you to also take a second paired companion, and then having to arrange for that companion's "accidental" death if you didn't want them in the party

- Inability to recognize mitigating circumstances behind Reputation loss or gain, instead just leaving or attacking you because you're a -5 person or +5 person.

I also am baffled by the notion that BG3 dialogue is cliched, but BG1 & BG2 isn't? BG1 NPCs are cliches that can often be boiled down to one line ("I am a stereotypical nagging wife" "I have a Napoleon complex", etc.)

It's those stereotypes that made the game memorable and entertaining. NPCs don't have to be reasonable - and hanging out with a mass murderer (Dorn) should have a consequence.

BG1 tried to ensure that party was cohesion something to be concerned about. Some players didn't like that, but as I understand it BG3 won't be much different. BG3 NPCs will try to kill you and they will leave your party as well. For example, I wanted Safana stay in my party, but I guess I was just too damn evil - flooding the mine with all those miners in it was the last straw for her - I'm sure that kind of thing will happen in BG3 too.

 

[KEV777]

Branwen is neutral. And was working for the slavers before she was petrified.

That's ok. The FR has slaves and slavers all over the place.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Viconia would certainly help - but at the end of ToB they all went their separate ways. I understand that it really wouldn't make sense for them to start over at level 1 again. Of course, I do wonder what the excuse for having Minsc and Jaheira return.

In trying to avoid a traditional mix of fantasy characters, these writers have fallen into the cliché of obtuse character extremes. Many fantasy writers today are scoffing at traditional fantasy character races, but what they don't realize is that interesting characters don't need shiny things like horns or hellfire hair. They only need personalities that are believable and relatable. IMO, the writers have completely lost the mark on that. I'll take well written characters from simple and basic fantasy LOTR races over this crap any day.

I am starting to think you know very little about the companions in BG III

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I don't think any of the faces are in the uncanny valley myself

The is a slight "animated movie" vibe to the BG3 aesthetic, rather than a live action aesthetic.

NWN2 was the ultimate uncanny valley experience.