Bard Help

[Smoke Jaguar]

I am starting up a new game with some old friends. I will be playing a character this time around instead of DM'ing. I am really excited and am looking for something new and fun with a bit of a challenge.

I want to play a Bard (yes, this is by choice).

I am leaning towards a virtue Doppleganger Bard.

Has anybody had success or insight that you can share? From my reading, it looks like the Bard uses a wand (not a musical instrument) for their implement. I thought that this was a bit odd. What is the purpose of them having an instrument?

 

[mneme]

Bards can use a wand as their implmenet, but they also have a few other choices for implement that aren't in the class description:

There are a variety of magical insturments that can be used as Bard Implements.

There are Songbows, which can be used both as bows and Bard Implements.

There are Songblades -- which can be used both as swords (heavy or light blades) and Bard Implements.

So --
Pure Implement bards should use either a magical insturment or a wand.
Precient (bow) bards should use a songbow.
Melee bards should use a songblade.

And if you want to do some combination, it complicates things, of course.

 

[Smoke Jaguar]

It seems like things are always a bit complicated. Thank you for the clarification.

I would like to play the character as my own. I do tend to be a bit of a class clown jokester. I am going to play that way instead of my normal heavy handed fighter.

How have you seen the more successful Bards played?

 

[malraux]

It seems like things are always a bit complicated. Thank you for the clarification.

I would like to play the character as my own. I do tend to be a bit of a class clown jokester. I am going to play that way instead of my normal heavy handed fighter.

How have you seen the more successful Bards played?

The funnest bard build I've seen has been the dice bard. I'm guessing it's the presceint bard, but don't quote me on that. But basically, the bard build that lets you do lots and lots of dice manipulation. Granting rerolls, stealing monster recharge rolls, etc. It's very different from the traditional bard, but still fits the tricky slightly annoying character class.

 

[mneme]

Most of the better bards I've seen use implement powers (there's a lot of goodness there), but any bard can do that, as above.

The big differences between the bard styles are their kickers and at wills. Cunning bards hand out mad numbers of slides, but you do need to remember to give them out. (otoh, with the right feats, you can be sliding opponents, too). Precient bards can operate at a longer range than other bards and can cancel attacks, but need Wisdom (which means their defenses are below average; doubling up on Cha/Wis will do that). And Valorous bards hand out great temp hps, particularly to a strikerish party, but do tend to need to get in close.

The other obvious differentiator is at-wills -- melee has War Song Strike (temp hp piniata) and the excellent Guiding Strike (-2 to a defense of your choice); Precient has Jinx Shot (which works well if you can make enemies miss), and any bard can take the implement powers; Staggering Note can be good, although two attack rolls is a bear; Misdirected Mark is best paired with a defender without differentiated marks (so the fighter marks whoever he can mark; you mark another enemy on behalf of the fighter); and Vicious Mockery is a good debuff.

What really sets bards apart, IMEX, is their dailies. They've got a lot of crazy effects they can put out there. Also, they can be -very- good at setting up crit-optimized allies for going off, between things like Arrow of Ill Omen and the -encounter- effect Focused Sound (which is certainly effective at focusing your allies, as they are drawn like moths to the flame of a *4 crit range).

 

[Max1mus]

Bards also use instruments as focuses for their Rituals. Their are a lot of very useful rituals and as long as you have an instrument that is worthy, you can even perform some for free.

 

[Lancelot]

I've played two bards (Half-Elf / Virtue of Valor, Human / Virtue of Cunning), and they're probably one of my favorite character classes. Here are my personal experiences...

Virtue of Valor

• Despite going with good Con, and taking Scale Armor Proficiency feat, I elected to focus on implement attacks only (i.e. ignore all the melee powers). A key reason for this is that I was in a melee-heavy party and wanted to save my healing for other PCs, and also because the bardic implement powers are simply so good.
• Vicious Mockery is the bardic at-will MVP. Attack vs Will is usually very good, and the -2 attack penalty is nasty - especially against elites and solos.
• Encounter powers I found very useful: shout of triumph (close blast, good damage, push enemies, shift allies), theft of life (good damage, and guaranteed healing for an ally), song of the new dawn (good damage, and saving throws for allies)
• Daily powers I found useful: stirring shout (insane against solo targets - healing every time an ally hits them), song of discord (Dominate, at 5th level!), wail of anguish (absolutely brutal against large groups of enemies)
• Invest in Wand Expertise to ignore cover, go for the best wand that money can buy. Defensive items were less important to me, because I was usually attacking from range, had good HP, and decent AC from Scale/Shield.
• The bard could dish out reliable damage, and provide decent healing. The 1-square slide effect from majestic word is not to be ignored. Use it to better position allies (e.g. flanking) or to break grabs.
• Other healing/buffing tricks included granting regular temp HPs from Virtue of Valor, granting saves or additional healing from the power selection above, and cheesing out with the dailies (all three of which are generally acknowledged as the "best" bardic dailies at their appropriate levels).
• Summary: Very tough leader (excellent AC, HP), good damage with ranged attacks, plenty of support options. Retired "undefeated" at 10th level.

Virtue of Cunning

• I went a bit strange with this bard, going with a ranged weapon (longbow). That's normally the purview of the Prescient Bard, and you normally go a Cha/Wis build with that. However, I never like going with a "defense pair" (i.e. buffing two stats that contribute to the same defense, in this case Will). It would have left me with low-ish Con, and weak Fort/Ref defenses. Instead, I went Cha/Dex.
• I went with jinx shot (which is a good long range option: 20+ squares with a bow), but I almost always preferred using staggering note. As noted by a previous poster, this has the downside of requiring two attack rolls. However, if you're in a party with one or more Essentials strikers, it's pretty nuts for an at-will. If you (the bard) hit with your first attack roll, the target take Cha damage (including static bonuses from magic bow, weapon focus, etc) and is pushed. That is often worth the price of entry, as it allows good tactical repositioning of enemies, or knocking them off cliffs, into pits, etc. However, a buddy can also make a free melee basic attack at any time during the push. In a typical round, my bardic at-will was inflicting 20+ damage (6 from me, 14 from my allied striker), even at 1st level. My best staggering note inflicted 50+ damage at 4th level; my bard hit, a slayer ally critted on his basic attack and dropped power strike into it, and the target got pushed over the edge of a 20' drop.
• I also went for interrupts. If you're going a ranged weapon bard, it's very hard to go past arrow of warning (daily 1) and rhyme of the bloodseeking blade (encounter 3). Both give you some respectable damage even when it's not your turn, and they have spectacular synergies if you're in a party with a decent melee striker - especially if that melee striker thrives on basic attacks, such as an Essentials slayer, assassin, rogue, vampire, etc.
• Summary: Less durable than the Virtue of Valor build, but could dish out more damage (especially with the human racial power that allows you to add +4 to a missed attack, 1/encounter). Made it to 9th level before succumbing to a massive gnoll onslaught that TPK'ed his party (18 gnolls, 5 hyenas - no minions, no blast or burst powers in the entire party). Ouch.

Other things that are cool about bards: free bardic ritual 1/day. Lullaby is an excellent option here, lowering enemy Perception to help get PC scouts or rogues into good positions, or assisting in Skill Challenges. Words of Friendship is also invaluable in Skill Challenges - your Diplomacy skill is likely formidable already; this class ability usually makes it an auto-succeed (+5 on the roll).

 

[Fkewl]

Your bard build should be based on what classes your other companions are.

Our melee-heavy (slayer, thief and fighter) group gets a lot from the Bard, especially against solo's when the bard spams his 3 dailies on it.

Stirring shout : one hit from the critter = healing
Vigorous cadence : every hit on the critter = healing
Saga of vengeance : every hit on the critter = saving throw or healing

All effects until end of encounter. Our 4 pc group can take on tough solo's any day.

The rest are for creating extra attacks, for our slayer or thief, like Staggering note, Unicorn's charge and the half-elf dilettante, Direct the strike.

All those extra attacks have a beneficial effect too : no need for air conditioning from all those swords swinging !