Bardic Music Timing?

[WizarDru]

Currently using #1, unless someone convices me otherwise.

From the SRD
Inspire courage is a supernatural, mind-affecting ability.

Countersong is a supernatural ability.

Fascinate is a spell-like, mind- affecting charm ability.

Inspire competence is a supernatural, mind-affecting ability.

Suggestion is a spell-like, mind-affecting charm ability.

Inspire greatness is a supernatural, mind-affecting enchantment ability.

and

From the SRD:
While singing, the bard can fight but cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands).

As with inspire courage, a bard may sing, play, or recite a countersong while taking other mundane actions, but not magical actions.

In short, the abilities are specifically called out as Supernatural abilities, with the exception of Fascinate, which is 'spell-like', which also requires a Standard action.

The mundane actions that are being refered to are, IMHO, things like standing up from prone, attacking, moving, sheathing a sword, picking items up, and other specifically non-magical actions. In other words, you aren't prevented from taking non-magical actions while using your bardic music ability, primarily. However, you still need to spend a standard action to BEGIN singing. On that first round, when you start, you should only be getting move-equivalent or free actions (unless you're already hasted, in which case all bets are off).

 

[vox]

We've been using #2 but now I am unsure--maybe 3 is right.

 

[Coreyartus]

In Living Greyhawk, they use #1, much to the chagrin of Bard players (there are so few Bard players in Greyhawk in part because of this ruling). This year, RPGA counted 14,000 players in the Greyhawk campaign, by far the largest organized system of D&D players. If they have reached a concensus (regardless of how vocal the minority may be), then you have to consider that a huge number of players are playing by rule #1, and therefore that influence is making a huge impact on how rules are interpreted.

That said, of course any DM can establish their home rules the way they want to, and considering the bashing that Bards take as a class it would seem petty and ridiculous to curtail them furthur by imposing even more strict rule guidelines.

With the 3.5 edition of the rules, all of us Bard players are hoping they clarify this greivously ambiguous rule (and it IS ambiguous, simply because there are so many people who are confused by it--regardless of how "right" people may think they are in their rules understanding), along with several other highly ambiguous rules regarding the Bard (like the nature of Bardic Knowledge in relation to Knowledge Skill checks and how DC's are determined, assigning/not assigning Perform skill points to specific instruments/talents, why there are so few pure Bard-oriented PrC's other than Virtuoso, and how a supposed 'jack-of-all-trades' is supposed to substitute for so many classes with so few skill points). It has been a consistent source of frustration that none of these topics have been addressed in any of the FAQ's since the release of 3E.

Before you make any decisions about playing a Bard, check with your DM on how he rules regarding these issues. You may decide that Inspire Courage may be the least of your worries, and playing a Bard at all may be too frustrating for you...

Just my two cents!

--Coreyartus

 

[Malin Genie]

In Living Greyhawk, they use #1, much to the chagrin of Bard players (there are so few Bard players in Greyhawk in part because of this ruling).

Where did you get this information?

I have read the LG FAQ and there is no mention of it - I have also asked the question on both the LG and Infinite Monkeys lists with no mention by the rules mavens on either forum that LG had decided on #1...?

 

[LoveMachine]

From the perspective of a musician with some vocal traing I would consider that for the singer to be convincing he needs resonable posture to breath properly and project his voice. It is possible to walk and sing. it is not possible to do gymnastic and sing.

back to the music prespective: you can play guitar and sing but you couldn't solo and sing, aside from the fact that it would clash they are both complex. you don't see world class drummers sing with operatic intensity at the same time.

 

[Silver Griffon]

I have to agree with WizarDru. Based on the material he quotes and my own reading, I must go with #1. Standard action to start, but can perform other tasks while continuing (with the listed exceptions of course).

As far as clearing up things in 3.5 goes, hopefully they will take the approach of d20 Modern and list all actions as either attack actions or move actions, and also drop the usage of the terms "partial action" and "standard action" as they seem to create some confusion.

Slightly OT: Coreyartus describes the bard as a "jack of all trades" which most of us, myself included, expect to be true. But the more I think about it the more I am convinced that this is a hold-over from 2e. The Rogue is now the jack of all trades and the bard is now highly specialized as a performer. Think about it. There is no longer a specialized "thief" class. The rogue can be any kind of character playing by his own rules. They are able to fill the roles of scout, fighter, investigator, even spellcaster (Use Magic Device). The bard entertains and influences people. The only thing that really screams "jack of all trades" about the bard is his eclectic spell list. The rogue has taken over that niche in 3e. It does bother me that barbarians have as many skill points as bards. I know in this system that those points are also used for climbing, swimming, survival, etc. But it still doesn't feel right. However, it must be pointed out that the bard does already get enough points to max out 3 +Int mod skills in addition to Perform at first level. Not too shabby if you buy my argument that the rogue has supplanted them in the jack of all trades department. If only they would clear up this whole Bardic Knowledge thing we would know how many of those skill points to put into Knowledge skills...