Bards - Likes and Dislikes?

[Mad Mac]

I dunno. 2nd edition Bards were very potent, but mostly just as a Wizard shortcut. Why be the d4 hp, no weapons, no armor, no special abilities gimp with the 2500 base xp progression, when you can level up faster as a Bard (Thus technically outwizarding the Wizzie) with some extra beanies on the side?

On the other hand, I didn't think the 2nd edition bard had much else going for him. He was tougher than the Mage, but theif attack progression was still pretty awful, Bardic Music was almost useless, and I don't remember the skills being all that either. The Bard had what? Climb Walls, Listen...and like 2 other skills. I always thought him being an expert climber with no other infiltration skills was kinda funny.

Fighter/Bard was a really good combo though. Heck, Fighter/Anything in 2nd edition was never a bad way to go, unless you could be Ranger/Something instead.

 

[TheLe]

I wonder if the Bard needs spellcasting at all. I understand sorcerers, wizards, clerics, and druids, but it seems to me that the Bard could be more than that.

`Le

 

[Seeten]

Bards dont need spellcasting, IMO. They need better abilities as a face, con-man, flim flam artist, jack of all trades, and musician/comedian/poet.

Bards ought to be able to fight well, as well as a rogue. They ought to have a deep face oriented skill list, but none of the rogue disable/open lock/trapfind skills. They ought to get a ton of skill points, +1 extra, for perform. Maybe +2 for perform of 2 different sorts. The ought to have a hit die as a secondary fighter, as historically, bards were secondary fighters. Sometimes primary. d8 at least.

Whats this give me: well, it gives me a rogue, really. The best bard is a rogue who concentrates on charisma. Its certainly the closest to a RL Skald, or War Drummer. I feel bad for the whole design of bard, because its flawed right from the getgo.

 

[Mistwell]

Quick question for you all concerning D&D 3.5.

Be as specific or non specific as you like.

What do you like , and dislike , about the Bard?



~Le

1) Like - Inspire Courage and feats, spells, abilities and items related to Inspire Courage.
2) Dislike - Alignment restriction. A Paladin cannot have a Bard cohort? That's just silly.

 

[Jdvn1]

I wonder if the Bard needs spellcasting at all. I understand sorcerers, wizards, clerics, and druids, but it seems to me that the Bard could be more than that.

`Le

If the Bard got much better (and more diverse) Bardic Musics/party buff abilities, they wouldn't need spells.

Though, spells are nice to have.

 

[Driddle]

I'd like to see the rule book text describing the traditional "bard" as a class concept be broadened to put less emphasis on song and allow more of the same game mechanics based on other entertainments.

 

[TheLe]

I'd like to see the rule book text describing the traditional "bard" as a class concept be broadened to put less emphasis on song and allow more of the same game mechanics based on other entertainments.

It might be called "Bardic Music," but it does not have to be singing. It could also be poetics.

 

[DarkKestral]

I love the CONCEPT of the bard; someone who inspires

I like the bard spell list, bardic knowledge, and ability to cast arcane spells in light armor without problems. I also like that it's an arcane caster with reasonable BAB, and a few martial weapon proficiencies.

I dislike bardic music. It seems poor as a mechanic, ties up relatively valuable skillpoints that could be used elsewhere to make the bard more effective as a 'face man' or as a caster, and often relegates the bard to being a buffbot/healbot that is considered to have no place in active combat.

I hate the fact that the rogue's higher level abilities and massive skillpoints make him better in the roles the bard is suited to playing better than the bard, save for buff-bot/heal-bot. Even there, a cleric is as good as a bard is in that role, can have spontaneous conversion to healing spells, rendering the main advantage of the bard vs. a wizard or sorceror useless, and can cast in heavier armor w/o any ASF.

In short, my biggest argument against the bard is that they have no easily definable role in combat, nor do they have one outside of combat, save for that from their music, which means they largely 'delegate' their actions, in the sense that they pre-buff the party before combats, and stay out of fights whenever possible. Like the idea of cleric as heal-bot, this makes an otherwise interesting archetype boring to play.

In fact, one of my biggest preferences for a variant bard involves removal of their bardic music entirely and replacing it with either reduced sneak attack damage/trapfinding/poison use to make it akin to a less-skillful rogue w/lmited arcane spellcasting.

 

[Chimera]

I hate the fact that the rogue's higher level abilities and massive skillpoints make him better in the roles the bard is suited to playing better than the bard, save for buff-bot/heal-bot.

Given the Bard's slow spell progression and limited spell uses, either of these roles is a bad move for a Bard. At second level, you finally get ONE first level spell and you're going to waste it on a Cure Light Wounds? Only if you're really desperate. At fourth, you get your ONE second level spell and it's a Buff? Hardly a "buff-bot" or "heal-bot".

With the massively expanded spell list that comes with the Spell Compendium, I love the flexibility that Bards get when it comes to spells. Serious customization, when you consider that they'll only ever have four of the large number of spells available at each level. Some of them are just plain cool too. Although OTOH, it almost makes it a requirement to take Inspirational Boost.

If I had my druthers, I'd give them slightly more spells per day, but I'm lazy and that's too big of a can of worms to open.

I ended up giving Bards d8 hit points and 8 skill points per level in my new campaign. Debatable as to whether that's too much or the wrong change to make, but as Bards see very limited use in any game, I thought it worthwhile.

 

[SpiderMonkey]

I was drawn to the bard when 3.0 initially came out; I really liked the concept, and they were a kind of fighter/mage that didn't require messing around with multi-classing.

Then we played.

I can't stand them. I don't know of anyone who liked playing them. For 4.0, I have a few suggestions for alternative names for the class:

Cheerleader
Spectator
Punching Bag
Bait Pile

Ugh.