Battle Cleric Options is up

[UngeheuerLich]

You can use a mordenkrad. Just not with that power. That power, with mordenkrad would be too good.

Use the mordenkrat with righteous brand. It is a great choice of a power.

Scimitar dance does not work with a full blade. It has balance reasons I guess... (of course, hammer rythm does wok with a mordenkrad, so maybe not )

 

[SabreCat]

Complaining that an article presents new options that don't fit automatically with an existing character or a particular concept isn't a very strong strike against it. Support for a class or build sometimes buffs existing characters, sometimes it opens up more possibilities for new (or reworked) characters--in this case it did the latter, which in no way hurts characters using other setups.

I'll agree with the "incentives are better than restrictions" camp, though. Rogue powers, for instance, would be better off without the Requirements tags, leaving Sneak Attack (with the corresponding feats/features that open up its use with other weapon classes) as the carrot.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

But maybe if they were no 3w powers but 1w + 2d6 powers (like the seeker has)

I would maybe agree then. (it would be nice for hybrids)

 

[Klaus]

Yuck!

Awful, awful article, and it's because of the simple weapons requirement.

What's one of the key battle priest paragon paths? Oh, the Angelic Avenger.

What's its special ability? You gain proficiency in the heavy blade of your choice.

Seeing the battle cleric in my group being unable to benefit from half of this article is unbelievably stupid.

What makes it worse is that it actually makes a battle cleric either go with the powers in *this* article, which help simple weapons, or with every *other* strength power, which are better with superior weapons. It is forcing a false choice which is incredibly poor design.

Here's an idea: carry a heavy blade for the battle cleric powers that allow them, and a mace for those powers that don't. Describe the mace as a holy water sprinkler.

Or maybe get a Dynamic Weapon?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Here's an idea: carry a heavy blade for the battle cleric powers that allow them, and a mace for those powers that don't. Describe the mace as a holy water sprinkler.

Or maybe get a Dynamic Weapon?

Ah yes, Dynamic Weapon, the duct tape of 4e

I can see the distaste with rules that tend to arbitrarily dictate use of certain weapons for purely mechanical reasons. It is NOT that elegant a way to design things and really should be avoided whenever possible. Not sure it WAS possible in this case, but...

The material overall is quite nice and gives STR clerics a nice boost, maybe putting them past Warpriests again. It would be really nice if there was a simple hammer weapon. That would knock out one of the little annoyances at least.

Still, this stuff is nice and very welcome. Try to not to poop all over it too much, eh?

 

[Klaus]

Ah yes, Dynamic Weapon, the duct tape of 4e

I can see the distaste with rules that tend to arbitrarily dictate use of certain weapons for purely mechanical reasons. It is NOT that elegant a way to design things and really should be avoided whenever possible. Not sure it WAS possible in this case, but...

The material overall is quite nice and gives STR clerics a nice boost, maybe putting them past Warpriests again. It would be really nice if there was a simple hammer weapon. That would knock out one of the little annoyances at least.

Still, this stuff is nice and very welcome. Try to not to poop all over it too much, eh?

You got a point re: simple hammers. I'd expand the list to include:

- Mallet (one-handed simple hammer)
- Cleaver (one-handed simple axe)
- Machete (one-handed simple heavy blade)

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

You got a point re: simple hammers. I'd expand the list to include:

- Mallet (one-handed simple hammer)
- Cleaver (one-handed simple axe)
- Machete (one-handed simple heavy blade)

Gets my vote.

 

[Zaran]

I think it would have been better to bring back favored weapons and give each one a benefit that fits the order.

 

[WalterKovacs]

I wouldn't classify it as "crying."

The single cleric archetype that has GOOD REASON to use better weapons because they are dedicated to battle and presumably so are their gods, is the one being either encouraged or flat out required to use simple weapons.

That doesn't strike you as illogical or invalidating of the usual tropes? The exact type of character that would most want to use their deity's favored weapon being built to be more effective when NOT doing so?

It is a bit counter-intuitive. However, there is already a build for cleric's that works perfectly well with superior weapons (the WAR priest), yes, one is a battle cleric, but the other is a warpriest. War is bigger than battle. Also, a templar can take he wisdom based warpriest weapon powers as well.

There are absolutely NO cleric's that encourage the use of simple weapons. There are weapon wielders, and there are the implement users that don't care about weapons at all (outside of maybe a couple of limited use powers.)

So they've made ONE build (the strength based battle templar) have a 'path' of powers which encourage/require simple weapon prof. There is ONE power at each level that needs a simple weapon, the other pretty much just patches over the lower damage of a simple weapon by throwing extra damage onto the attack. The requirement one also does that with extra to-hit and damage tacked on ... but does close off the riders to non-simple weapon users.

The rest of the options in the article (the build alternates giving the shield bonus, the alternate channel divinities and the paragon path) are all perfectly fine for existing strength based clerics who just want a bit of a power boost. [Heck, outside of the level 16 paragon path feature and punish the profane, the abilities are fine for non-Strength clerics as well].

While there is a power that has a restriction in it ... it's hardly restrictive. There are plenty of powers out there that:

a) Can only be used with a shield
b) Can only be used while wielding two-weapons
c) Can only be used while wielding a reach weapon
d) Can only be used while wielding a two-handed weapon
e) Can only be used while one hand is free

It's hardly the first, nor last, power that has a weapon based restriction on it. And, it's one power of many.

EDIT:

BTW, scythe wielding cleric. Nuff said.

 

[DracoSuave]

There was already a build of templar that worked with non-simple weapons as well.

Don't see the problem.