D&D 5E Battlemaster: 18th level feature

[FormerlyHemlock]

According to the Fighter advancement chart, at 18th level the fighter is supposed to get an archetype feature.

Is it just me, or is the Battlemaster 18th level feature the lamest 18th level feature ever? The Champion gets regeneration. The Eldritch Knight gets to make a weapon attack whenever he casts a spell (thus synergizing with Eldritch Strike). The Battlemaster... gets to increase his d10 superiority dice to d12s. Wheee?

Am I overlooking something or is that literally all the Battlemaster gets at that level?

 

[Dkase]

Considering all the maneuvers they get, I don't think they've been short changed that much. Course the option to get MORE superiority dice would be nice.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Considering all the maneuvers they get, I don't think they've been short changed that much. Course the option to get MORE superiority dice would be nice.

It makes Battlemaster 20 a very unattractive choice compared to multiclassing though. Most levels after 12 are dead levels. You'd be better off as almost anything else, e.g. Battlemaster 12/Arcane Trickster 8.

 

[Fanaelialae]

According to the Fighter advancement chart, at 18th level the fighter is supposed to get an archetype feature.

Is it just me, or is the Battlemaster 18th level feature the lamest 18th level feature ever? The Champion gets regeneration. The Eldritch Knight gets to make a weapon attack whenever he casts a spell (thus synergizing with Eldritch Strike). The Battlemaster... gets to increase his d10 superiority dice to d12s. Wheee?

Am I overlooking something or is that literally all the Battlemaster gets at that level?

It's not amazing, but it isn't all that bad either. It's a small but direct increase in the potency of what the Battlemaster does (the equivalent of increasing the potency of ALL the spells an Eldritch Knight can cast). It would arguably be more impressive if it was roll 2d10 and take the better roll, but archetype features don't usually grant world shattering powers.

An Eldritch Knight gains the ability to cast a spell and make an attack, but another way of looking at it is that he still has to give up 2 attacks (3 at 20th level) in order to cast a relatively weak spell. The Champion's regeneration isn't bad, but it's a relatively small amount that only functions while the Champion is between 1% to 50% of his HP total.

Personally, my vote for least impressive 18th level feature goes to the Warlock, who simply gets a new invocation (and there aren't any 18th level invocations, so he doesn't gain access to anything he couldn't access before).

It makes Battlemaster 20 a very unattractive choice compared to multiclassing though. Most levels after 12 are dead levels. You'd be better off as almost anything else, e.g. Battlemaster 12/Arcane Trickster 8.

IMO, Fighter doesn't need much incentive to go to 20, given that it has a very competitive level 20 feature. You can, of course, opt out of Battlemaster Fighter at level 12, but you're giving up a fair amount to do so. A second and third use of indomitable, a BONUS ability score increase (at level 14), a second use of action surge, your third extra attack, relentless, two maneuvers, one extra superiority die, and a die increase for ALL superiority dice.

Considering all the maneuvers they get, I don't think they've been short changed that much. Course the option to get MORE superiority dice would be nice.

That option exists. If you take the Martial Adept feat as a Battlemaster, you get two more maneuvers and one more superiority die. Given that Fighters get more feats than any other class, you're not giving up that much for it. The only down side is that you can't take the feat multiple times. Nonetheless, by 15th level you can have 11 maneuvers and 7 superiority dice (all of which recharge on a short rest), AND you regain a superiority die if you start an encounter without any. That's not bad for an archetype feature (compare with what the elemental monk gets).

 

[ExploderWizard]

It makes Battlemaster 20 a very unattractive choice compared to multiclassing though. Most levels after 12 are dead levels. You'd be better off as almost anything else, e.g. Battlemaster 12/Arcane Trickster 8.

Fighter is worth staying with after level 12. At 17th level you can use action surge twice between short rests, and level 20 gives 4 basic attacks per attack action. The fighter is the only class that can get this.

 

[Zalabim]

Battle Master's path features are just more front loaded than the other options. For any caster, 3rd and 4th level spells are worlds apart from 1st and 2nd level ones for combat uses. For the champion, every extra attack (and many of the possible magic weapons) will make an increased critical range better at higher levels. For only the battle master, they get 46% of their final per short rest value of superiority right at level 3. Extra attacks only lets them spend it faster, but they have no problem using them all from level 3. It does lead to a bit of disappointment in the final levels. If you want something to make it a bit more exciting, I'd recommend removing the size limitations on the relevant maneuvers, and coming up with improvements for any of other underperforming maneuvers at some point.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I honestly think if there were an easier way to recall the dice, or if you had some bigger manuvers (say ones that you couldn't access until level 10) that the subclass would work better.

 

[Quartz]

That option exists. If you take the Martial Adept feat ... The only down side is that you can't take the feat multiple times

Really? Says who? PHB, p165? You're the GM. Rule 0 applies. If it makes sense to take the feat more than once then do it.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Really? Says who? PHB, p165? You're the GM. Rule 0 applies. If it makes sense to take the feat more than once then do it.

I thought it rather obvious that I was discussing RAW.

Yes, the DM is free to change the rules as he sees fit. He can make Martial Adept grant infinite wishes or ban that feat entirely. The RAW default, however, remains what is in the PHB.

Unless the DM chooses to change the rule, you cannot take Martial Adept more than once.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

IMO, Fighter doesn't need much incentive to go to 20, given that it has a very competitive level 20 feature. You can, of course, opt out of Battlemaster Fighter at level 12, but you're giving up a fair amount to do so. A second and third use of indomitable, a BONUS ability score increase (at level 14), a second use of action surge, your third extra attack, relentless, two maneuvers, one extra superiority die, and a die increase for ALL superiority dice.

I can see that with Eldritch Knight and even champion, because Champion's Survivor really is awesome and Eldritch Knight gets spell progression in the levels between 12 and 20 (2nd level spells => 4th level spells). But the Battlemaster...

If you go Battlemaster 12/Arcane Trickster 8, you generally increase your damage, against any foe with a high AC where an ally is adjacent or advantage applies. E.g. vs AC 19 Adult Red Dragon your DPR goes from 34 to 38. Yes, you miss out on an extra action surge and two Indomitable usages, and you have 5 d10s for seven maneuvers instead of 6 d12s for nine maneuvers, no Relentless, and one less feat. In return you gain Cunning Action (which could boost DPR even further via Hide against tough foes, and also helps mobility), a suite of defensive spells (Shield, Invisibility, Blur, Mirror Image), Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and Expertise on your Athletics/Stealth/Perception checks (plus one more). Evasion alone probably makes up for the missing Indomitables, especially since you've already got one and there are diminishing returns.

Maybe it's because of playstyle, and the fact that I prioritize survivability[1], but the Arcane Trickster additions look way better to me than the battlemaster's mild increase in spike damage output and extra feat.

[1] E.g. due to the dynamic-sandbox nature of my world, surviving an ambush by ten Mage Armored Invisible Stalkers when you're bedding down for the night and have removed your armor/shield is indeed a thing--and when I play, my PCs worry about and plan for the same scenario happening to them. If you're ready for that you'll never be discombobulated by a mere Intellect Devourer attack, let alone a standard 5E "Medium encounter." Plans are useless but planning is invaluable.

Plus, an awareness that your friends could be dead tomorrow reminds you to treat them nicely today and enhances the strength of (fictional) relationships. There's no protagonist plot armor.