Battlestar Galactica:Season 2 7.22.05; Part 1 NSCR

[Storm Raven]

There is a difference between drawing on faith to give people comfort and hope and actually having your diety or dieties communicate with you through visions.

That's just different degrees of the same thing, sort of like the old joke where a man asks a woman if she'd sleep with him for a million dollars.

The former is far more common than the latter. Adama did not claim to be getting email from the gods, so to speak, but Roslin more or less is.

Of course, one major difference is that Roslin believes that the things she is saying are true, whereas Adama belives the things he is telling people to "comfort them" (such as the "fact" that he knows the way to Earth), are lies. Who is more morally responsible in this scenario?

It is also common in situations where things seem very bleak for people to grasp at any shred of hope, including someone who claims to be a prophet. Roslin shattered Starbuck's hopes of eventually finding Earth by revealing Adama's secret and then offered her a straw to grasp at.

Which would not have been possible had Adama's entire credibility not been based upon a lie. Of course, we know also that at least some of Roslin's visions seem correct: she knew about Kobol for example.

 

[fett527]

Good point. Again, I must applaud the great writing on this show. Is she a true visionary? Is she hallucinating? Is she a cylon being fed images? So... many... questions...

I'll second that applause! Love this show.

And your new avatar gave me a chckle reveal. "I'm on an adventure!"

 

[MaxKaladin]

Maybe she is and maybe she isn't. But if your President, whomever is in office, started to lead the country based upon "visions" they were having, how would you react? Personally, I'd be very, very skeptical.

This sums up my feelings on the matter. I'm very, very skeptical about Roslin's "visions" and I excuse Adama's actions because of the extraordinary nature of the situation. He and the president seemed to be the only ones who recognized the extraordinary gravity of their situation most of the time. If they screwed up, humanity was extinct so far as they know. Now Roslin is having hallucinations she says are visions from the gods and doing things that endanger the fleet. I'd say he had reason to believe that the president was not fit to hold office.

I normally do not approve of military coup, but we don't know what provision the colonies had for removing a president that was believed to be unfit for office or if the bodies normally responsible for carrying out those provisions had been reconstituted yet. We also do not know what his subsequent plans were because he was shot right after Tigh got back with Roslin and Apollo. He may well have been trying to act as constitutionally as he could under trying circumstances. After all, in addition to everything else, the nominal successor was off in a raptor somewhere.

Finally, I don't think Tigh is fit to command but think he's the best choice considering the others. Zarek and Roslin are not fit to command either, IMO.

 

[Fast Learner]

If they screwed up, humanity was extinct so far as they know. Now Roslin is having hallucinations she says are visions from the gods and doing things that endanger the fleet. I'd say he had reason to believe that the president was not fit to hold office.

By this reasoning, however, the President should have taken away Adama's power when he radically endangered the fleet back in episode 7 or so, when they hung around and burned over half their fuel because he couldn't let Starbuck die. He put the fleet much more at risk than she is, and his reasons were just as inane.

He's much more dangerous to the remaining humans than she is. And he's proven it.

 

[dravot]

By this reasoning, however, the President should have taken away Adama's power when he radically endangered the fleet back in episode 7 or so, when they hung around and burned over half their fuel because he couldn't let Starbuck die. He put the fleet much more at risk than she is, and his reasons were just as inane.

He's much more dangerous to the remaining humans than she is. And he's proven it.

Whether she's a whack-job, or truly a prophet, Kicking-Bird did what she did for the benefit of the fleet. What Adama did was purely for his son. That's the difference.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

I love the question of whether or not Roslin is actually a prophetess or not... that might be my *favorite* thing about the show. I personally would like to think that she is... but - time'll tell.

This episode really made me feel for Starbuck. I've always liked her, but the music scene was really, really powerful. Her lack of strength has been shown a couple of times throughout the first season, but I think that this episode was very telling of just how weak she truly is... She's definately not the tough-girl she'd like everyone to think she is.

 

[MaxKaladin]

By this reasoning, however, the President should have taken away Adama's power when he radically endangered the fleet back in episode 7 or so, when they hung around and burned over half their fuel because he couldn't let Starbuck die. He put the fleet much more at risk than she is, and his reasons were just as inane.

He's much more dangerous to the remaining humans than she is. And he's proven it.

I agree up to the point where you say he's more dangerous than she is. He just nipped things in the bud before she got a chance to prove she is more dangerous whereas when he endangered the fleet, nobody interfered. I fully believe that if she had been given the chance, she would have put the fleet in far worse danger by following her "visions" -- especially since I believe they are cylon-manufactured and intended to cause her to put the fleet in danger.

To be clear, I do not believe Adama is the best possible leader. I believe he is the best available leader.

Oh, and here's another thought. From what I can tell, there is some kind of theme in colonial religion where the Lords of Kobol cause/let humanity to get nearly wiped out and then they go off on some exodus to find some new home. Perhaps they need a new religion...

 

[fett527]

...Oh, and here's another thought. From what I can tell, there is some kind of theme in colonial religion where the Lords of Kobol cause/let humanity to get nearly wiped out and then they go off on some exodus to find some new home. Perhaps they need a new religion...

"This has all happened before, Gaius."

 

[MaxKaladin]

"This has all happened before, Gaius."

Yeah, I know it's a big thing with the cylons. I'm pretty sure there was some of this from all the religious stuff Elosha was telling Roslin about as well.

 

[The_Universe]

The Cylons definitely seem to believe in a "cyclical" universe - events repeat with slight variations over and over again forever. That's interesting, because that's *usually* a feature of polytheistic or animalistic belief structures (but the Cylons are obviously monotheistic). Concurrently, the colonists seem to believe in an apocalypse/paradise (start point to end point) kind of universe - which is usually a feature of monotheistic belief structures, but are instead obviously polytheistic.

There's some interesting stuff that goes on at the very core of the series...real hard sci fi. I love it.