beating on walls
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Blood Jester
First Post
Q: Can you break rock with a hammer?
A: ABSOLUTELY!
In the past I worked in construction for a small, under equipped company, and I have had EIGHT HOUR DAYS in which I HOPED the Goddamn hammer would break! Eventually we smashed the rocks which we had no large equipment to move, into smaller, more mobile pieces.
BTW: Anyone old enough to remember that prison sentences used to include statements such as "Ten years at hard labor." ???
That often meant nothing more exciting than, you guessed it! BREAKING ROCKS WITH A HAMMER!!! All day, every day!
Humans CAN do it, and hammers are easily able to do it as well. You strike the rock with the ten pound metal head. This is a nearly (not totally, but close) indestructible item (ignoring rust and insane temperatures). The wooden shaft is rarely struck (never struck hitting a flat surface like a wall), so it's hardness relative to the stone is not relevant. In fact, it's very 'softness' protects both it, and the user, by absorbing the shock from impact.
So, regardless of what the DM chooses to rule, as far as the 'facts' go, almost any decent sized hammer weilded by any healthy (not powerfull, just healthy) adult can smash rock.
Thanks for listening!
A: ABSOLUTELY!
In the past I worked in construction for a small, under equipped company, and I have had EIGHT HOUR DAYS in which I HOPED the Goddamn hammer would break! Eventually we smashed the rocks which we had no large equipment to move, into smaller, more mobile pieces.
BTW: Anyone old enough to remember that prison sentences used to include statements such as "Ten years at hard labor." ???
That often meant nothing more exciting than, you guessed it! BREAKING ROCKS WITH A HAMMER!!! All day, every day!
Humans CAN do it, and hammers are easily able to do it as well. You strike the rock with the ten pound metal head. This is a nearly (not totally, but close) indestructible item (ignoring rust and insane temperatures). The wooden shaft is rarely struck (never struck hitting a flat surface like a wall), so it's hardness relative to the stone is not relevant. In fact, it's very 'softness' protects both it, and the user, by absorbing the shock from impact.
So, regardless of what the DM chooses to rule, as far as the 'facts' go, almost any decent sized hammer weilded by any healthy (not powerfull, just healthy) adult can smash rock.
Thanks for listening!
ConcreteBuddha
First Post
"I am "beating my wall" RIGHT NOW, if you know what I mean, and I think you do."
Wrong, Hong.
"They look quite different to me, and in fact handle differentlly too."
So do a Greatsword and a Long Sword, and in DnD the differences between the two is comparable to the Warhammer/Sledge.
Using this analogy, would you say a Greatsword can cut things but a Long Sword can't?
Granted, a Greatsword is better at cutting things, hence the increase in damage.
Apply this to the Warhammer/Sledge and that is what I'm getting at.
"Somehow I bet if these guys found a warhammer they wanted to destroy, the DM wouldn't let them smash it with a big rock over and over until the warhammer was broken."
Actually, as the DM, I would allow the PCs to destroy the Warhammer with the Rock if they could do enough damage to it to bypass the Warhammer's hardness and hit points.
And yes, the rock would be unharmed...
Wrong, Hong.
"They look quite different to me, and in fact handle differentlly too."
So do a Greatsword and a Long Sword, and in DnD the differences between the two is comparable to the Warhammer/Sledge.
Using this analogy, would you say a Greatsword can cut things but a Long Sword can't?
Granted, a Greatsword is better at cutting things, hence the increase in damage.
Apply this to the Warhammer/Sledge and that is what I'm getting at.
"Somehow I bet if these guys found a warhammer they wanted to destroy, the DM wouldn't let them smash it with a big rock over and over until the warhammer was broken."
Actually, as the DM, I would allow the PCs to destroy the Warhammer with the Rock if they could do enough damage to it to bypass the Warhammer's hardness and hit points.
And yes, the rock would be unharmed...
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Well, I misspoke myself.
A better analogy would have been to say, "He wouldn't let them simply destroy the warhammer by deliberately using it to break through a 5-foot thick masonry wall."
In all fairness I think you'd be wrong to let them smash it with the rock, iron has more hardness than stone, so I don't think it would work anymore than trying to chop through stone with a whip would work...
Final thoughts:
The John Henry post was great. The essence of gritty heroism. Do the job, and DIE doing it.
The warhammer picture from eBay seems to be a light warhammer. An honest-to-god 1d8 x3 warhammer, I think, would look more like a sledge. And at any rate, other than the wooden handle, that thing looked perfect for the job. Blunt on one side, with a pick on the other. Perfect if we're talking masonry wall as opposed to hewn stone.
"I have had EIGHT HOUR DAYS in which I HOPED the Goddamn hammer would break!"-- ROFL. That about sums it up.
As for my vote, which should be obvious by now, the DM was _wrong_ on this one.
Wulf
A better analogy would have been to say, "He wouldn't let them simply destroy the warhammer by deliberately using it to break through a 5-foot thick masonry wall."
In all fairness I think you'd be wrong to let them smash it with the rock, iron has more hardness than stone, so I don't think it would work anymore than trying to chop through stone with a whip would work...
Final thoughts:
The John Henry post was great. The essence of gritty heroism. Do the job, and DIE doing it.
The warhammer picture from eBay seems to be a light warhammer. An honest-to-god 1d8 x3 warhammer, I think, would look more like a sledge. And at any rate, other than the wooden handle, that thing looked perfect for the job. Blunt on one side, with a pick on the other. Perfect if we're talking masonry wall as opposed to hewn stone.
"I have had EIGHT HOUR DAYS in which I HOPED the Goddamn hammer would break!"-- ROFL. That about sums it up.
As for my vote, which should be obvious by now, the DM was _wrong_ on this one.
Wulf
ConcreteBuddha
First Post
Sorry, I'm good at kicking dead things...(live ones tend to fight back.)
Just to nitpick...
"In all fairness I think you'd be wrong to let them smash it with the rock, iron has more hardness than stone,"
By this rationale, a person with a Wooden Club should not be able to sunder a Steel Greatsword, and yet it is perfectly legal in DnD (and in real life).
"so I don't think it would work anymore than trying to chop through stone with a whip would work... "
"Ineffective Weapons: The DM may determine that certain weapons just can't deal damage effectively to certain objects. For example, you will have a hard time chopping down a door by shooting arrows at it or cutting a rope with a club." PHB pg. 135
I think a whip against stone would fall under this category, but a rock against a warhammer is a little more wishy washy...
Just to nitpick...
"In all fairness I think you'd be wrong to let them smash it with the rock, iron has more hardness than stone,"
By this rationale, a person with a Wooden Club should not be able to sunder a Steel Greatsword, and yet it is perfectly legal in DnD (and in real life).
"so I don't think it would work anymore than trying to chop through stone with a whip would work... "
"Ineffective Weapons: The DM may determine that certain weapons just can't deal damage effectively to certain objects. For example, you will have a hard time chopping down a door by shooting arrows at it or cutting a rope with a club." PHB pg. 135
I think a whip against stone would fall under this category, but a rock against a warhammer is a little more wishy washy...
Roland Delacroix
First Post
ConcreteBuddha said:
Yes, yes i would say that.
For the club vs greatsword, check this link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1436000/1436689.stm
The winners of the confrontation are issued clubs standard.
James McMurray
First Post
Why would we need this? If I want this I'll play Rolemaster. (And I do play Rolemaster when I can).
All we need is the ability for a DM to make a judgement call saying that awarhammer will break if used as a mining tool. Sounds good to me.
And yes, weapons often come into contact with armor, swords, and shields in battle. However, that's not exactly "hitting something harder than itself." Its hitting something as hard as itself. If the stone wall they're wanting to bust through is actually earth and stone, fine. But if (as I assumed) its a large stone block, then I'll still say heck no.
However, looks like this one's gone the way of "I'm right"... "Nope, I am." ... So why don't we just move along.
Shard O'Glase
First Post
Me being another person who has used sledges and other large muscle powered tools a lot I can say that they almost never break from use. The only time I even hurt the sledge was when I got sloppy, while splitting wood and hit the wedge with the wooden handle. That damaged the handle but some duct tape made it all better. I have broken rocks with a sledge as well. While as I mentioned before weapons are different than tools, the warhammer in D&D is very much like a sledge so should be able to be used without breaking against rock just like a sledge. Now I could see a reasonable rule that certain weapons are ineffective v rock walls, for example say a scimitar can hack through rock walls about as well as arrows can take down wooden doors. So it does 1/2 damage or something. But again I wouldn't make the scimitar break since I like Kreynolds wouldn't want to open up that can of worms and have to deal with every situation where weapons break, or be a bastard DM and just have weapons break whenever I don't like the players tactics.
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