Beating the Favored Soul with a Nerf Stick

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I love the concept behind the Favored Soul-- a spontaneous divine caster fuelled by their intimate connection to their deity. However, their number of spells known is excessive for a spontaneous caster, especially when coupled with their three good saves and nice class abilities.

With that in mind, I've put together a couple of ideas for powering down the Favored Soul while retaining (or enhancing) its flavor as a class.

The first thing I did was reduced the Favored Soul's Known Spells by three per spell level that the Favored Soul is allowed to cast-- meaning that when a Favored Soul first gains access to a new level of spells, they have 0 spells known for that level.

I'm not leaving the Favored Soul without spells to cast, however. Since Domains are the expression of a god's interests, influence, and power, a class which represents an even closer relation to a deity than that of the Cleric should be even more bound to the Domains of their patron deity. At 1st level, the Favored Soul may select two domains, like a Cleric, receiving the respective domain powers and adding the granted spells of that domain to their Spells Known list.

Furthermore, unless the Favored Soul's patron deity is Neutral in alignment, the Favored Soul must select an appropriate alignment domain as one of their domains. A Favored Soul who follows a Neutral deity may select any two of the deity's offered domains.

Effectively, this means that the Favored Soul's spell selection is far less flexible than the Sorceror's, making up for the fact that the Favored Soul still knows more spells per level. It also represents the Favored Soul's deeper connection to their patron deity, and gives a coherent theme to their spell selection.

At this point, this is the only change I've made. However, if further limitation is necessary, the Favored Soul's good Fortitude or Reflex save could be removed, or they could lose access to the Energy Resistances they gain as they advance. I wouldn't touch their Weapon Specialization or their Wings, as these seem like definitive powers of the Favored Soul.

 

[RisnDevil]

I think you limit them in comparison to other spontaneous divine casters by giving them fewer spells known though. The design theory they put behind this, was it couldn't hurt to know more divine spells because they are less offensive and more utility than arcane ones. Almost everybody is going to use one of their spells known of every level for a curing spell, and giving them fewer spells known makes people not want to do that.

 

[The Amazing Dingo]

I think you limit them in comparison to other spontaneous divine casters by giving them fewer spells known though. The design theory they put behind this, was it couldn't hurt to know more divine spells because they are less offensive and more utility than arcane ones. Almost everybody is going to use one of their spells known of every level for a curing spell, and giving them fewer spells known makes people not want to do that.

I was going to point out precisely what RisnDevil said - Clerical spells are far more utility and non-combat based then the offensive might wielded by their arcane cousins. Sure, Clerics do have some good offensive spells, but once you know a Favored Souls offensive armada, it is more easily circumvented since it'll be very limited. Their spells will not be as awe-inspiring but more versatile.

Concerning the healing, it was a point I had not considered.

 

[RisnDevil]

I agree that the class sounds really fun from an actual roleplaying perspective, I think that rather than nerf the Favored Soul, which I agree could use some tweaking, try creating a completely new class.

How about this. You have a class that instead of being tied to a single deity, it is somehow tied to the forces behind divine magic, which in game terms boils down to domains. At level one, you pick two domains. These are spell-like abilities usable once per day each that open up to you like spells of new levels would as you progress.

At level 5, you pick a new domain. This new domain is now usable once per day, and progresses in the same manner. Your two OLD domains are now usable one additional time per day. Example: Jozan at level one picks Healing and Protection as his domains. He can use the level one spells of each domain once per day. At level three, he can also use the level two spells of each domain once per day. At level five, he chooses War as his new domain. He can now use the level one, two and three spells of the War domain once per day, and the level one, two, and three spells of Healing and Protection TWICE per day.

At levels ten, fifteen, and twenty repeat the process of adding one domain and increasing previous domains.

You can throw in some other abilities for flavor if you want. Wil save good of course. Probably Fort too. Bad Ref, and Cleric BAB.

How does that sound?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I think you limit them in comparison to other spontaneous divine casters by giving them fewer spells known though.

I'm only effectively lowering their spells known by 1, however, since the two Domains come with their respective spell lists. It parallels well with the Shugenja, who has two per level when they first gain access to a new spell level-- except that one comes from their Order and the other must be chosen from within their element.

If this strikes you as a serious problem, you could try reducing the Favored Soul's spells known by 2 per level instead of 3-- leaving them with the same net number of known spells, but still requiring them to connect their spell usage to their Domains.

Almost everybody is going to use one of their spells known of every level for a curing spell, and giving them fewer spells known makes people not want to do that.

That's what the Healing domain is for.

 

[dwayne]

I as a DM have a group made up of a hex blade, a spell thief, a warlock, and a favored soul. I sent this group up vs a NPC group of Equal level a standard fighter, thief, wizard, and priest. The encounter was very balanced and only the spell thief got knocked out by low hit points and the enemy thief sneak attacking him and the enemy wizard got him with a ray of frost he was not amused. The favored soul is I think balanced for the most part example priest heavy armor, know unlimited number of spells. If its not broke don't fix it, in a toe-to-toe fight my money is on the favored soul but on casting power I would go with a priest. Mind you my players are still low level but the alternate classes in the books give the game a bit more flavor and I think a good one there is great potential for role play with these classes. Power gamers in my group love the warlock but if the dm dose it right the class is sort of an out cast as are the other ones as for the spell thief well lets just say having an entire enclave of wizard after you some of note would not be fun so reputation would come into play. But I am rambling on it all boils down to the DM and keeping things balanced and fun

 

[Malar's Cow]

I've been tweaking the Favored Soul myself lately, hoping to introduce it into the campaign soon. I've made the following changes in the class (tentatively):

All spontaneous spellcasters in my campaign use the Mana System from WW Advanced Player's Guide. While creating more flexibility in the number of spells that can be cast, total number of spell levels available to a spontaneous spellcaster decreases by about a third.

Number of spells known to a favored soul does not change.

Armor and weapon proficiency does not change.

Class skills do not change.

I've removed energy resistance, wings and damage resistance as granted powers, modified the weapon focus/specialization and substituted alternate granted powers as follows:

At 2nd level, the FS receives Weapon Focus (deity's favored weapon) as a bonus feat.
At 6th level, the FS may select one of her deity's domains, and receives the granted power for that domain.
At 10th level, the FS gets a favored enemy (as per the ranger ability). The FS gains a +2 insight bonus when using specific skills against her favored enemy, and gets +2 insight bonus on damage rolls against them. The favored enemy must be a faith, organization or group of creatures specifically opposed to the deity's alignment or goals.
At 14th level, the FS may select another of her deity's domains, and receives the granted power for that domain.
At 18th level, the FS receives Weapon Specialization (deity's favored weapon) as a bonus feat.

Comments on balance/overall power would be welcomed.

 

[Arkhandus]

Korymir, you're not really nerfing the Favored Soul if all you're doing is taking away 1 spell known of each spell level and then giving them 2 domain powers in exchange. The alignment domains may suck sometimes, but the other granted powers can be more useful than a few extra spells known. I'd suggest not giving them the granted powers of their domains, or something, at least.

 

[Gnome]

Another limiting factor is that the favored soul has to worry about two spellcasting stats: CHA is used for bonus spells and max spell level, and WIS is used for save DCs.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Korymir, you're not really nerfing the Favored Soul if all you're doing is taking away 1 spell known of each spell level and then giving them 2 domain powers in exchange. The alignment domains may suck sometimes, but the other granted powers can be more useful than a few extra spells known. I'd suggest not giving them the granted powers of their domains, or something, at least.

Actually, I think the fact that their first two spells per level are chosen for them is a more effective limit than lowering the spells known-- but you may have a point.

Perhaps if this were coupled with the removal of the energy resistances and the good Reflex save?