D&D 5E Beholder hunting: nasty counter-tactics to Darkness?

[FormerlyHemlock]

A couple of sessions ago, my players got invited to join bounty hunter cleaning out a crashed beholder ship. They managed to take down 3 beholders (first one, then two at a time) by dragging them out into the open where the bounty hunter's giff mercs could shoot them to death with arquebuses. Last session the cleric's player couldn't make it, so the PCs were too scared to go in alone, and they wound up leaving. I told them that a few minutes after the bounty hunter went in, they heard a loud explosion, and that was it.

So now I get to resolve what happens when 40 hippo-headed giff mercenaries invade a beholder stronghold with 24 beholders (but no hive mother), split into little groups of 1d5 beholders who no longer trust the other beholders. At first I thought this was going to be rough, with lots of dead giff, and then I reread the beholder entry and found that the beholders can only use their random eye rays on "targets it can see within 120 feet." Which means that Darkness makes this thing a cake walk. The merc wizard can cast Darkness on a giff's equipment; the giff goes in, grapples a beholder, and drags it out where everybody else can shoot it to death simultaneously. The beholder's 4d6 bite is basically a non-factor, and it's +0 Strength will make it almost unable to break free of a giff's +6 Athletics grapple.

So here's my question for the hive-mind: assume that I'm not going to change the rule and let beholders shoot things under Darkness. What kind of nasty tricks could the genius-level beholders play to turn the tables? Prefer tactics which don't require them to cooperate in large packs, although once a few packs have died the last 12 or so should be willing to cooperate with each other to end the threat, in spite of their mutual hatred and distrust.

So far the only ones I've got involve:

1.) digging pits and trenches with Disintegration to create barriers,
2.) collapsing tunnels behind the giff to suffocate them in earth,
3.) digging a tunnel straight up and then levitating up there so you can get behind the giff with Darkness, without him noticing you, and
4.) pincer-counterattack such that Darkness can only protect part of the giff column. Then hit the wizard, if possible, to decapitate the enemy force.

If the beholders can't come up with better tactics that that I give them no better than a 50% chance of survival.

 

[RangerWickett]

Two beholders spot this ball of magical darkness (which their darkvision can not see through) in the middle of the normal darkness (which their darkvision can see through). One swings its antimagic eye there so they can dispel the darkness and figure out what's in there. Upon realizing it's just a dumb little humanoid, it averts its antimagic eye, and then both beholders use their telekinesis rays to grab heavy rocks and slam them into the ball of darkness.

Wait, hm. In 5e, beholders have to use their eye rays at random. That's a big nerf to them having tactics.

New strategy. Withdraw and wait for the darkness spell to end.

 

[Celtavian]

That random eye ray rule is never going to be followed by me. Dumbest choice by a game designer ever. I wonder who made that decision.

 

[Scorpio616]

Wait, hm. In 5e, beholders have to use their eye rays at random. That's a big nerf to them having tactics.

That was a really odd one. Really makes me wonder how thier CR was calculated with expected per round damage.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

They dispel the darkness with their eyes. Then blast the dumb humanoids in them the next round. Also don't forget that this place will count as a beholder lair so eye rays will come out of the walls.

 

[CapnZapp]

nvmnd

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

They dispel the darkness with their eyes. Then blast the dumb humanoids in them the next round. Also don't forget that this place will count as a beholder lair so eye rays will come out of the walls.

It doesn't dispel the darkness, it just suppresses it. As soon as the anti-magic goes away, the Darkness comes back on. There's no way for a beholder to zap someone under Darkness.

Telekinesis is an okay strategy but not great, both because it means I as DM would have to make up rules for damage (maybe just go with 4d6, same as a bite attack?) and because of the random eye-ray thing. (Unlike some of you, I'm okay with random eye rays because it fits with my fluff for beholders as being totally crazy, at war even with themselves. Which eye rays get used is the result of internal politicking between sub-minds: combat by committee. So the fractious behavior of individual eye-rays is a microcosm of the fractious infighting of the whole beholder ship, which is a microcosm of beholders as a race. The bounty hunter in question is being paid 1000 gp per beholder eyestalk he brings back, by another group of beholders which is closely related to the one he's hunting.) When you're slamming someone with a rock for 14 points of damage (times hit percentage) and he and his buddies are shooting you back with forty guns for 220 points of damage (times hit percentage), that is a losing hand. The giff would love that exchange rate[1].

So there's one idea so far: telekinesis with heavy rocks. Anything else?

Waiting it out won't work because Darkness is cheap and easy to cast, and also because if beholders can be forced to retreat by something as simple as Darkness, the giff will eventually force them aboveground and then shoot them to death on the surface. Beholders are already weak at range, they have to make a stand belowground.


[1] The more complete description of the giff plan is: enter the ship, locate a beholder, grapple it, drag it out where everybody can shoot it. Yes, I know that giff would do way more damage with melee weapons than with arquebuses, but they love guns and they love to shoot things more than they love to smash things. Beholders aren't the only ones in this situation who are slightly illogical in their combat tactics.

 

[Celtavian]

Beholders beaten by a darkness spell because the RAW doesn't allow them to target anyone they can't see is the height of RAW absurdity. I can't conceive of such a fearsome monster being beaten by a 2nd level spell. I guess a greater invisibility would also work in a similar fashion. Thanks for bringing this little bit of absurdity to my attention.

I read the Beholder. You are indeed right, Hemlock. A fearsome beholder gracing the cover of the Monster Manual can now be beaten by any creatures that can prevent them from seeing them. By RAW the genius game designer that wrote up the beholder decided their eye rays can only target things they can see within 120 feet and their rays are random.

Wow. I didn't notice this until Hemlock pointed it out. 5E turned Beholders into a joke creature easily defeated by simplistic tactics. How does a game designer not understand how much weaker a Beholder becomes when eye rays are random and can only hit targets they can see? No wonder Hemlock by RAW is allowing a party to fight them. They are a vastly higher CR than they should be in 5E for a creature easily defeated by not being able to see the target with no ability to see invisible or unseen creatures. That is perhaps the biggest ball I've seen dropped in monster design in 5E.

If the game designers have created a situation where Beholders are a joke Hemlock, let the party massacre them. This should not have happened to one of D&D's iconic creatures. Crawford and Mearls are going to have to look at this because this should not be happening to a D&D Beholder. I hope Mearls and Crawford do not sit by why a classic, iconic D&D creature is turned into a joke creature easily beaten.

I'm going to have to write some house rules for the Beholder. Even if nothing gets changed officially, I can't sit by why this happens.

And I was thinking Hemlock was turning beholders into orcs. He was just exploiting the RAW on beholders. It was the game designers that turned beholders into a CR 5 to 7 creature easily beaten by simple, low level tactics. Heck, a hill giant has a better chance in darkness than a beholder.

 

[Coredump]

Okay.... I wasn't familiar with Giffs, so I had to look them. Nothing I found indicated they could see through darkness. Is this something you house ruled, or where does it come from? In 5E even Devils can't see through darkness. It is a very powerful ability...especially if you gave it to an entire race.

[Editors Note: Below is a list, if its too long... at least read #11)

You say it is a ship, but also talk about blowing up tunnels... is this a ship built out of an asteroid? (Never played Spelljammer, which is what I am guessing this is.)

Beholders are weak, slow, floating creatures... their lairs are large open caverns to take advantage of their flight and avoid melee. I would imagine their ships would be the same. Unless the Giffs have a way to fly, they should not be able to just grapple a beholder.

1) I think you are reading too much into the 'creature they can see' restriction. A human archer can shoot any creature he sees, but he can also 'guess' the location of an invisible creature and still attack with disadvantage. I would certainly let the Beholders 'guess' the location and just fire into the dark. Picking out the exact center may not be easy.... but they get 6 shots a round, each....

2) If a single Griff (AC? HP?) then they could bum rush him... getting 3-5 attacks of 4D6 can add up. Especially later when they are cooperating and its 6-10 bites.

3) They just need to stay >15' up so they griffs can't reach them.

4) If it is a 'party' of griffs... then wait for them in a large room, angle the main eye so only a few griffs are effected, but make sure the 'darkness griff' is one of them. Then the other beholders blast the griffs that are not in the cone. Keep changing the angle of the main eye to get the rest of the griffs.

5) Create narrow passageways (<5' wide) so that you know exactly where they are... then shoot down the hallway.

6) Darkness only lasts 10 minutes, which means they have maybe 5-7 minutes to look around before they have to head out or risk getting caught. Its must be a really big ship.... how long will it take to find beholders each time? They can keep moving around, even going back to spots that have been checked. Just how many times can the wizard cast Darkness in a day?

7) Using the above, wait until they have been looking around for a while, then start using Lair Actions to hold them, and slow them down. When the Darkness wears off, kill them.

8) Put a Death Tyrant on board, with his host of zombies.

9) Set up a room that once entered has no exits. (Perhaps a ladder that gets destroyed, or blow up a tunnel, etc.) Wait for darkness to wear off, kill them. Heck, if you kill them all, you can keep using the same room.

10) Not sure how Beholders fly a ship by themselves... perhaps they have some 'lower life forms' as crew?


11) Most importantly.... if you were a race of *really* intelligent floating creatures... that wanted to stay away from walking creatures... how would you build a ship?
There are no floors. A tunnel would enter the next room 25' up the wall, or come out through the ceiling or floor. You don't really care that much about gravity...
Any long tunnel would be broken up with vertical shafts, so forward 30', up 15', forward 40', down 15', etc..... or better yet, each of those vertical shafts are 100' up and down, with a number of tunnels to exit. Picture an elevator shaft, but no elevator.....now picture dozens and dozens of them. You can't go 50' without hitting another elevator shaft. When you start climbing down, a beholder shows up and disintigrates the rope....

Assuming there is a consistent gravity.... then the 'floors' of the rooms could be anything, they could be slanted, they could be coated with grease, they could have 10' walls all over the place. It could be a maze that doesn't let you go anywhere... You could even keep some nasty pets around.... you don't care, you float above it all.

If there is not consistent gravity....then each room can be oriented differently, you just turn as you enter... but walking down a tunnel, and entering via the ceiling...means the griffs now fall 30' to the floor...which is filled with mini stalagmites...

Going into a Lair designed by or for Beholders..... should be suicide unless you have flying/hovering capabilities.

 

[Celtavian]

1) I think you are reading too much into the 'creature they can see' restriction. A human archer can shoot any creature he sees, but he can also 'guess' the location of an invisible creature and still attack with disadvantage. I would certainly let the Beholders 'guess' the location and just fire into the dark. Picking out the exact center may not be easy.... but they get 6 shots a round, each....

Human archers shoot using hit rolls. Beholder eye rays require saving throws assuming they auto-hit creatures they can see. You could give perhaps give advantage on saving throws given the Beholder can't see the target. It would have been much more intelligent design to require the Beholder to make attack rolls. By RAW it does say "must see" target. So any DM, experienced or inexperienced, is going to have to deal with this tactic for beholders. It should have been taken care of in the creature's design. There's no excuse for overlooking something as common as invisibility or darkness causing this type of problem.

And the random rays further weakens them. A beholder not being able to operate tactically weakens them by at least a few CR.