belt of might? +1 or +2 to all scores

[Wilphe]

Fine. Why isn't BAD an alignment?

Except for my Fochlucan Lyrist melee build, has anyone else a char close to being played right now that needs all 6 stats as high as possible?

I'd buy it, because I like characters who can do a bit of everything.

That's doesn't mean to say that I have any that "need" it, I'm not sure what that means in this context anyway. If you mean "would be part of an optimal build", well if I wanted an opitmal build I wouldn't be playing a JOAT in the first place.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I happen to hate slot affinity, but it's an official rule. I was just showing that the math was correct. (Although, I don't think there was slot affinity in 3.0; maybe there was, but it wasn't published, only used by the game designers.)

Fair enough.

But it is very easy to throw stones at a price. If 200k is too low, what is correct?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Fair enough.

But it is very easy to throw stones at a price. If 200k is too low, what is correct?

Even if I were inclined to give them a discount, I'd let them pay for at least 4 full stats at the very least. That would make it 252,000 gp They still get it all in one go, and get the other two ability scores thrown in. (I could live with that, but I wouldn't really like it)

You shouldn't get huge discounts (the thing would cost almost twice as much if you were to create it by the guidelines!) just because you can't use everything. If you don't want them all, don't get them all.

 

[Strife]

in the game i play in,
a 40 level epic game currently the item costs
306000
or 36000 for the initial item, and 54000 for each additional stat increased
36000+5*1.5*36000

we ignore the affinity rules on items. if you follow the rules just make all the stats non slotted, or 72000 each, or 432000



6*36000=216000 the minumum any sane dm should ever allow, magic items should not be bulk pricing, the more you buy the cheaper it becomes.

 

[Slaved]

magic items should not be bulk pricing, the more you buy the cheaper it becomes.

I suggest that you never look at staffs then.

 

[Strife]

I suggest that you never look at staffs then.

Staffs are a different scenario since they share charges and the more spells you add to a staff, while increasing the staffs versatility decreases the amount of charges you can spend on each spell. Wheras a permananent magic item the more you have the better.

 

[Slaved]

Staffs are a different scenario

Yes, there are differences. There are also similarities.

Plus your comment said that items should not be bulk priced, obviously you do not actually feel that is true in general.

I bet there are other items that could be discounted for bulk abilities as well. Especially if they are abilities which cannot be used at the same time.

 

[Deset Gled]

I think the real issue is that WotC is using this item as a "band-aid" to fix the fact that many builds that suffer from MAD are viewed as underpowered.

Some people may remember the many discussions that took place here in the early days of 3.0 arguing about if the Arcane Trickster is balanced. The basic arguements that the AT is unbalanced are very logical. It gives more power (full caster levels and sneak attack progression, plus more) than another other base class has, there is no rogue/caster build that shouldn't take it, etc, etc. In practice, though, just about everybody has come to terms with the fact that the AT is balanced by its prerequisites (i.e., you must suck to get into the PrC). In many ways, it is indespensible. It is really the only way to make a rogue/caster character viable.

At some point, someone at WotC probably looked at all of the multiclassed characters that are weak because they need to many good ability scores to perform well. To combat this, they made a single item that gave bonuses to all abilities, and lowered the cost significantly below standard pricing to make it more attainable. However, I see two problems with this.

First, unlike the AT, there are no prerequisites. Anybody can use this thing. That means that someone who otherwise would be perfectly happy with three ability boosting items is much more likely pick one of these up to save the extra slots, and piggyback the extra benefits. And I believe getting an extra bump to a couple saves or AC or whatever else is an notable benefit.

Second, I don't think MAD characters are suffering that much. Sure, your Mystic Theurge may need both Wis and Int to cast well, but how is that any worse than your standard Monk or Paladin who needs multiple abilites? The only real classes that can get away with focusing on one or two stats are pure casters and tanks. Add to that the large number of feats and PrCs that have been added in every new splat book to cater to the needs of multiclassed characters (how many Gish PrCs are there in WotC products now?), and I just don't see this item as being necessary.

Just my 2 cents, based soley off the numbers, not actual experience. I don't play with the MHB anyway, so it isn't an issue.

 

[Slaved]

Desert Gled,

I was wondering, who would pick up this item if they only really wanted 3 stats boosted and the rest were side benefits at best?

3 items at +2 are 12,000 goldpieces and take up 3 slots. The belt at +2 costs 25,000 goldpieces and takes up 1 slot.

Saving the extra slots is definately nice but doubling the cost for what likely amounts to +1 to a save and +1 to a couple of skills is rough.

3 items at +4 are 48,000 goldpieces and take up 3 slots. The belt at +4 costs 100,000 goldpieces and takes up 1 slot.

Still paying about double for the bits that you actually want with bonuses on top. At this point it is about +2 to a save and +2 to a couple of skills. Lots of cost for those extra beneifts but with some bonuses as well.

3 items at +6 are 108,000 while the belt at +6 is 200,000.

There is an arguement to be had about characters who do not really need certain stats that get more benefit, such as a character who wants strength, intelligence, and charisma, who will gain bonuses to all of the stats which give bonuses to saves as well plus other goodies. But, for such a character, is it not already something of a drawback to be needing all of the other stats which did not do those things in the first place? For that guy his dexterity, constitution, and wisdom are likely to be pretty low to begin with. Plus, if he instead went with the three items he could use the extra money to help shore up those weaknesses in a different way, such as through better armor or other defensive items.

With the high cost you have to wait until a higher level to get it as well. A character could have 3 +2 items as early as 6th level by the wealth guidelines while the earliest you could have a +2 belt would be 11th level!


Now, I do not play with affinity for slots, I think it is dumb. If you want to make boots of constitution boosting and bracers of charisma go for it, same price as anywhere else. So issues of cost for using other slots do not come up for me.

 

[Deset Gled]

Desert Gled,

I was wondering, who would pick up this item if they only really wanted 3 stats boosted and the rest were side benefits at best?

3 items at +2 are 12,000 goldpieces and take up 3 slots. The belt at +2 costs 25,000 goldpieces and takes up 1 slot.

Saving the extra slots is definately nice but doubling the cost for what likely amounts to +1 to a save and +1 to a couple of skills is rough.

[snip]

3 items at +6 are 108,000 while the belt at +6 is 200,000.

[snip]

Now, I do not play with affinity for slots, I think it is dumb. If you want to make boots of constitution boosting and bracers of charisma go for it, same price as anywhere else. So issues of cost for using other slots do not come up for me.

For starters, if you're not going to be using affinity slots, and if you allow players to change the slots on items around at will, then I'll admit that the benefit of the belt drops a lot. But the standard rules in the SRD and DMG do include affinity pricing, and allowing any custom made magic items is a house rule. My analysis is based off of those rules only, so it probably won't match your experience well.

I can tell you that disregarding affinities and allowing custom slotted items makes a HUGE difference in the game. A core-only sorcerer is forced to choose between a Cloak of Resistence, and a Cloak or Charisma. A monk is forced to choose between an Monk's belt, and a Belt of Giant Strength. A rogue must choose between a Hat of Disguise and a Headband of Intellect. These are not always easy decisions to make. Similarly, I view the cost of combining numerous items into one to be a large cost, especially at high levels.

So, if we price a single item that gives +6 to three abilities using the standard pricing rules, we get the following example of the Headband of Perfect Excellence (+6 Str, Dex, and Wis), we get:

36000 (belt of Strength +6) +
36000 (gloves of Dexterity +6) +
36000 (periapt of Wisdom +6) =
108,000gp

18000 (adding gloves' ability to first item) +
18000 (adding periapt's ability to first item) +
18000 (Strength item in headband slot) +
18000 (Dexterity item in headband slot) =
72,000gp

108,000 + 72,000 = 180,000gp

So now we have 180000 gp vs 200000 gp. And using those numbers, I think just about everyone will take the +6 to all vs. the +6 to three.