D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

[Nikosandros]

I do think it's more likely that the 1 turn is a typo.

I agree that it is very likely that it was a typo. Still, the 1 turn duration is a nice variant from other editions. The spell can be cast in advance and the missiles released as needed during the following turn.

 

[darjr]

I agree that it is very likely that it was a typo. Still, the 1 turn duration is a nice variant from other editions. The spell can be cast in advance and the missiles released as needed during the following turn.

As written I wouldn't interpret that way. Just that they exist for a turn? But I never did that either.

I do admit it's a cool little twist.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Clinging to what was expected 30 years ago is blind adherence to things most modern players don't really have any attachment to.

Perhaps we can find a compromise then, get out of this "one way or the other" mentality.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well, that too, but even if you are unconcerned about the real-world practicalities of game publication, "incoherence" at best matters to the people that notice it. If how things work in D&D 5e is different and what assumptions are made has changed since 1978, that only matters to people who both know that, and frankly, care. If you started playing in 2010, do either apply? Why should they?

D&D's lore and what they focus on was never that coherent in the first place; acting like its sacred makes no sense except in the context of sentiment.

This is why I object to the idea that all games labeled D&D are in fact the same game. It is not a continuous spectrum of game development, and pretending that it is is a disservice to everything that has come before. You want to pretend the present is always better than the past? Wait until those of us who appreciate that past are all dead. Otherwise, you're going to get some pushback.

 

[Lanefan]

It is weird that it has a duration of 1 round given the text description.

Before I even started playing, our lot ruled - probably erroneously but it stuck and now is simply how it works here - that the missiles were fired one per segment until the caster ran out. Because there's only 6 segments in a round and one is needed to cast the spell, this also capped it at 5 missiles maximum.

This ruling probably came about via seeing the duration, reading the write-up, and trying to guess what the bleep Gygax actually wanted that he hadn't written down.

 

[Voadam]

Before I even started playing, our lot ruled - probably erroneously but it stuck and now is simply how it works here - that the missiles were fired one per segment until the caster ran out. Because there's only 6 segments in a round and one is needed to cast the spell, this also capped it at 5 missiles maximum.

This ruling probably came about via seeing the duration, reading the write-up, and trying to guess what the bleep Gygax actually wanted that he hadn't written down.

Moldvay for B/X MM weirdness.

1e from Gygax was:

Magic Missile (Evocation)
Level: 1 Components: V, S
Range: 6” + 1”/level Casting Time: 1 segment
Duration: Special Saving Throw: None
Area of Effect: One or more
creatures in a 10 square foot area
Explanation/Description: Use of the magic missile spell creates one or more magical missiles which dart forth from the magic-user’s fingertip and unerringly strike their target. Each missile does 2 to 5 hit points (d4 + 1) of damage. If the magic-user has multiple missile capability, he or she can have them strike a single target creature or several creatures, as desired. For each level of experience of the magic-user, the range of his or her magic missile extends 1” beyond the 6” base range. For every 2 levels of experience, the magic-user gains an additional missile, i.e. 2 at 3rd level, 3 at 5th level, 4 at 7th level, etc.

Duration unexplained special is weird too.

 

[Lanefan]

1e from Gygax was:

Magic Missile (Evocation)
Level: 1 Components: V, S
Range: 6” + 1”/level Casting Time: 1 segment
Duration: Special Saving Throw: None
Area of Effect: One or more
creatures in a 10 square foot area
Explanation/Description: Use of the magic missile spell creates one or more magical missiles which dart forth from the magic-user’s fingertip and unerringly strike their target. Each missile does 2 to 5 hit points (d4 + 1) of damage. If the magic-user has multiple missile capability, he or she can have them strike a single target creature or several creatures, as desired. For each level of experience of the magic-user, the range of his or her magic missile extends 1” beyond the 6” base range. For every 2 levels of experience, the magic-user gains an additional missile, i.e. 2 at 3rd level, 3 at 5th level, 4 at 7th level, etc.

Duration unexplained special is weird too.

Duration "special" then not saying what special means: yep, that's Gygax all the way.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Perhaps we can find a compromise then, get out of this "one way or the other" mentality.

As far as I'm concerned, a game product is written for the people who will be using it now. If the majority of those are going to benefit from it one way, a small subset being soggy because it wasn't what they were used to 20 years ago should have no real significance, let alone people people are having a problem it wasn't what it was 40 years ago.

It isn't a question of "one way or another"; its a question if one POV of should even be something people making a game now should even care about. Its one thing if you're writing a game primarily to suit yourself, and people will like it or not and you don't care that much. Its another when you have an audience you're serving, in which case you pay attention to them, and the biggest part of them first.

Basically, the question when you start claiming something is "harming the game" is, "by who's standards?" And if the answer is "mine", why should they care?

 

[Thomas Shey]

This is why I object to the idea that all games labeled D&D are in fact the same game. It is not a continuous spectrum of game development, and pretending that it is is a disservice to everything that has come before. You want to pretend the present is always better than the past? Wait until those of us who appreciate that past are all dead. Otherwise, you're going to get some pushback.

Give me a break. I've been gaming since 1975 and still am fond of some games that are pretty much long off the grid. I just don't make it a habit of expecting people to care, especially people who have started gaming within, say, the last generation.

 

[James Gasik]

"may shoot two more missiles when casting the spell" is the hint to how it's meant to be used.

However play as you like.

See also this interesting bit at Dragonsfoot.

[B/X] Magic missile: 1 turn duration - Dragonsfoot

After reading that thread, it's kind of refreshing to know that quibbling over the fine details of rules and inserting one's own "interpretation" of said rules is a plague on all versions of D&D, lol.