Berserker Question

[klofft]

Had an epiphany of clarity and wanted to make sure it was right.

We have a Berserker Barbarian in our game and he does loads of damage, even in "Defender Mode." So much so that our Striker player sort of complained about it. So I was trying to crunch the numbers and see where the problem might be and I think I found it.

HotF says that the Berserker goes into a Berserker Fury (or whatever it's called that isn't Rage) whenever he uses a power with the Primal keyword.

Here's the key: is it the case that when he uses such a power he MUST go berserk or he can CHOOSE to go berserk?

We have been playing it as the latter, but now I'm pretty sure it's the former. If so, a Barbarian wishing to be a well-rounded Defender instead of just a Striker needs to be very careful with power selections (for example, my player has no non-primal powers, so as a Defender he'd be forced to rely on Melee Basics, which is an interesting tactical choice).

Can someone clarify this for me? TIA.

 

[nogray]

A berserker that uses a Primal power does not choose. They automatically go into their fury. Note that the at-wills in Heroes of the Feywild start with only the martial keyword, so they are safe; they only gain the primal keyword if the Berserker is already in Berserker Fury.

Also note that there is text that implies (though I can't find it stated outright) that a Berserker can not use Martial powers once in Fury mode.

A Berserker is a Martial defender who (upon using a Primal power -or- using a minor action when bloodied) becomes a Primal striker. They can't use a Primal power without triggering that shift in roles. (One of my Berserkers that I fiddled with and never played always picked old Barbarian "Rage of ..." powers for my dailies, so I got the rage benefit and the activation of my Fury with the same power use.)

TLDR: You are correct; there is no choice about role shifting if you use a Primal power.

Hope that helps!

 

[Obryn]

He goes berserk automatically if he uses a Primal Attack power. (Note: Non-attack primal powers are safe.) There's no choice in that case.

He can choose to use a Minor action to go berserk while bloodied.

The berserker in my game stacked up on Martial powers, even going so far as to multiclass to Fighter (Battle Awareness ftw) and snag CaGI (which is beautiful with a defender aura). I'll tell you - the amount of THPs he gets every fight is extremely respectable.

-O

 

[Larrin]

Also note that there is text that implies (though I can't find it stated outright) that a Berserker can not use Martial powers once in Fury mode.

!

A discussion here talks about the "can't use martial powers" implication:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-discussion/315636-berserker-fury-heroes-feywild.html

the phrase being:

Additionally, since you can use martial powers only when you are not under the influence of your Berserker Fury,

My belief is that its an awkward attempt to point out you that since primal powers make you rage you can use only martial powers while acting as a defender, and not trying to say you can't use them when berserk. Its not worded well. Either way, this sentence in NOT in the actual berserker rules (its in build suggestion space) so it really has no authority over gameplay.

 

[On Puget Sound]

Larrin, I think you're correct. They meant to say "can use only martial powers when", or "can use martial powers, only, when" and not "can use martial powers only when".

Grammar matters.

 

[nogray]

My belief is that its an awkward attempt to point out you that since primal powers make you rage you can use only martial powers while acting as a defender, and not trying to say you can't use them when berserk. Its not worded well. Either way, this sentence in NOT in the actual berserker rules (its in build suggestion space) so it really has no authority over gameplay.

I agree wholeheartedly that your interpretation is a likely intent, and that the placement of that odd sentence lends further credence to that view. In fact, I would not tend to limit a Berserker in that way. I was just pointing it out for full disclosure.

(What I think might have happened was that one of the early drafts included rules text in the Berserker Fury ability that stated something like, "you can no longer use martial attack powers," or, "you can only use primal attack powers." This text was removed in an editing iteration, but the build advice text -- already written with that bit of rules tech in mind -- was never revised. Just a theory, though.)

 

[klofft]

I agree wholeheartedly that your interpretation is a likely intent, and that the placement of that odd sentence lends further credence to that view. In fact, I would not tend to limit a Berserker in that way. I was just pointing it out for full disclosure.

(What I think might have happened was that one of the early drafts included rules text in the Berserker Fury ability that stated something like, "you can no longer use martial attack powers," or, "you can only use primal attack powers." This text was removed in an editing iteration, but the build advice text -- already written with that bit of rules tech in mind -- was never revised. Just a theory, though.)

Most of the martial powers of the barbarian seem to have the note "adds the primal keyword after going into berserker rage."

 

[nogray]

Most of the martial powers of the barbarian seem to have the note "adds the primal keyword after going into berserker rage."

Only the at-wills (meaning first-level at-will attack powers) have that note. The encounters, dailies, and utilities don't get that added.