D&D 5E Best Crit-Fisher Builds

faria

First Post
Are we still positive that going Half-Elf for Elven Accuracy will out-damage going Half-Orc for the extra crit damage die? More accuracy vs more damage...
 

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Yunru

Banned
Banned
Are we still positive that going Half-Elf for Elven Accuracy will out-damage going Half-Orc for the extra crit damage die? More accuracy vs more damage...

Considering Elven Accuracy sends your crit chance from 19% to 27.1% while Half-Orc will only add an extra weapon die 19% of the time...

Half orc adds 0.19*[W], while Elven Accuracy adds 0.081*([W]+[Sneak Attack]).

Eurgh, maths.

0.19*[W]=0.081*([W]+[SA])
0.19W=0.081W+0.081SA
0.109W=0.081SA
So Half Orc is better when your sneak attack is lower than ~1.35× the weapon damage.

By die size, Half Orc is better until:
1d4: 1d6
1d6: 2d6
1d8: 2d6
1d10: 3d6
1d12: 3d6
2d6: 3d6
 
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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Considering Elven Accuracy sends your crit chance from 19% to 27.1% while Half-Orc will only add an extra weapon die 19% of the time...

Half orc adds 0.19*[W], while Elven Accuracy adds 0.081*([W]+[Sneak Attack]).

Eurgh, maths.

0.19*[W]=0.081*([W]+[SA])
0.19W=0.081W+0.081SA
0.109W=0.081SA
So Half Orc is better when your sneak attack is lower than ~1.35× the weapon damage.

By die size, Half Orc is better until:
1d4: 1d6
1d6: 2d6
1d8: 2d6
1d10: 3d6
1d12: 3d6
2d6: 3d6

I'm making the assumption you are talking only about your most recent build - if that's incorrect I'll reformulate.

I know you dropped Extra Attack, but are you still counting dual wielding?

With multiple attacks, the half-orc extra crit damage can apply to none, one or both of the attacks, adding damage to both, so it's slightly more important the the single-attack math you showed.

Of course, SA requires finesse weapons, so the half-orc has at most a d8 to add in, instead of the larger d12 of a greataxe, so it's probably a moot point. :)
 
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Yunru

Banned
Banned
Ah yes. I was confused for a second because I forgot SA is 1/turn. Not sure how to model it as I was getting some really weird results (Sneak Attack has to match 15 damage what?).

EDIT: No, the build doesn't dual wield because TWF doesn't work with Booming Blade.
 

Corran21

First Post
Crit-fishing with a melee build...

1) I think the most important thing is to have a reliable source of getting advantage. The best one imo is reckless attack (spells might not work or counterspelled/dispelled, familiars/mounts can die, abilities that recharge on rests or expend resources might not always be available). The downside with reckless attack is that it makes you more vulnerable, so having additional ways to gain advantage is still important. Yet, reckless attack (hence barbarian 2), is still a top priority imo.

2) After you make sure that having advantage is taken care of, the next thing to do is to find a way to spike your damage when scoring a crit. Sneak attack is a very good way to go about this, as it does not rely on resources (though it requires commiting to a LOT of rogue levels). I think there is a better way to go about this, though. I would do this, via a combination of extra attack (to make the most of the increased crit range and crit damage), GWM (grants bonus action attacks on crits/ or kills, and pairs exceptionaly with triple advantage), and smites (either paladin ones, or warlock ones granted through an invocation -warlock smites are better, and hexblade is also good as it can expand your crit range with some restrictions in place, but the paladin offers some goodies too). Perhaps sneak attack can end up on top after the end of a very long adventuring way, but if you build carefully and plan for a good spell slot progression, then extra attack and smites will have more impact, and a better nova potential (assuming you dont do an awful job handling resources).

3) You have to increase your crit range. This can be done either by going with champion, or with hexblade's curse.

4) Have some defense against effects that poison you, frighten you, restrain you, etc. As if something imposes disadvantage on you, its game over.

----------------------------------------------

So, all that said, I end up with 2 builds in mind:

Build 1
Halfelf, Barbarian 2/ Hexblade 3/ Bard (Valor) 15
Stats: STR 16, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 14
Feats: Elven accuracy, GWM, plus one more (sentinel, mounted combatant, lucky, str bump, blade mastery, are all some good choices)
Ways to get advantage: Reckless attack (main), faerie fire (secondary)
Spell slots: 4, 3+2, 3, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1 (used with warlock smites or with AoA)
Extra attack from valor bard 6
Increased crit range from hexblade's curse, with restrictions on its applicability.
Main drawback: Due to the split in the classes taken, it will take some time for this build to come online ( and I am not even sure on what the level progression should be). Secondly, this build does not have very good saves, so it's vulnerable against effects that impose disadvantage on us.


Build 2
Race: Halfelf
Character level: 14
Class: Barbarian 2/ Paladin (vengeance) 6/ Bard (Lore) 6
Stats: STR 16, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 9, CHA 16 (or sth like that)
Feats: Elven accuracy, GWM
How to get advantage: Reckless attack, vow of enmity, faerie fire
Maxed slots till 4th level for smitting on crits.
Any higher level spell slots to be used with AoA (grabbed through additional magical secrets) when raging. (Take care so that the spell slots of 5th level or higher to match the number of rages you have per day, so that you can always have AoA on when raging).
Find steed and AoA make for a very strong mount.
Aura of protection for boosting your saves to guard against effects that impose disadvantage (resilient wisdom is a good feat to be picked with your next ASI).
At rounds when you didnt crit or kill something, you can use your bonus action with bardic inspiration. And you can use cutting words with your reaction too. All that even when raging.
If against one strong opponent, you can forgoe reckless attack in favor of VoE. That will probably save you some pain.
The only thing really missing is an improved crit range. We could take 3 levels in champion with our remaining levels, so that we take care of everything missing. But grabbing another or two barbarian levels for a path and an additional rage per day, and perhaps even for another ASI is a good idea too. So is grabbing more bard levels for more and higher level spell slots for better use of AoA (+rage), and for extra spells (for when you are not raging -remember, you have VoE too, so when not using reckless attack you might as well save no your rage and rely on VoE and spells-, or for out of combat use), even for magical secrets at bard 10. Lots of options.
I think I would go with barbarian (wold or totem, depending on group comp) 4/ paladin 6 (vengeance)/ bard 10 (lore), and do without the increased crit range from champion (though that really hurts crit fishing but balances out the build more nicely overall imo). If really focused on crit fishing, I would probably go with barbarian 3 (wolf/totem)/ paladin 6 (vengeance)/ champion 3/ bard 8 (lore).
 
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N810

First Post
Champion 3/Berserker 17
Half-Ork (more crit dice)
Frenzy (for 3rd attack)
Action surge (for extra turn)
Reckless attack (advantage)
Brutal Critical (more crit dice)
Improved critical (crit on 19 & 20)
Great Ax for all them D12's
Luck (for re-rolls)
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Champion 3/Berserker 17
Half-Ork (more crit dice)
Frenzy (for 3rd attack)
Action surge (for extra turn)
Reckless attack (advantage)
Brutal Critical (more crit dice)
Improved critical (crit on 19 & 20)
Great Ax for all them D12's
Luck (for re-rolls)

Okay, so this seems to be the pinnacle of _weapon_ damage (even if others have more total damage), with 6d12 happening 19% of the attacks. Which makes me curious.

The Great Weapon Fighting style would increase it from average 39 weapon damage (6.5 per die) to average 44 weapon damage (7.33 per die), which happening 19% of the time means it adds a hair more then 1 damage per attack.

Wow, in that extreme case it finally pulls close to but still behind Dueling fighting style (+2 * 65% hit).

*sigh*
 

Yunru

Banned
Banned
Okay, so this seems to be the pinnacle of _weapon_ damage (even if others have more total damage), with 6d12 happening 19% of the attacks.

Are you sure?
The same build but with Elven Accuracy swaps 1d12 for 8.1% more crits (5d12 happening 27.1% of the attacks).

Half-Orc: 1.14d12
Half-Elf: 1.355d12
 

ZakathBC

First Post
I am looking to do a crit style build starting at level 12 replacing my freshly dead character and ending at level 15 probably. I can't decide on half orc champion 12 barb 3 or vice versa. I start with a +2 greataxe and gruumsh's blessing which gives expanded crit range and an extra weapon die on crit. Either way I will have 18-20 crit range and 3d12 extra damage on greataxe crits. We tend to have fewer fights but harder in a day 2-4. Any suggestion to which is better or just smoother?
 


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