Best Spell to Maximize

[Xarlen]

Although I've not been in much of the debate, I'll toss my support to the Kreynolds' crowd. Infact, I'll list my own stats if I'm 'one of the guys'.

Maximized has it's uses. You Always know what damage you're going to get. Always. 4th level Maxed MM is going to do 25 points of damage. If you're hasted, that's 50 points of damage, in one round, that they Can't block, that's assured.

With Empower, you have to roll it. Which, in some cases, is somewhat better (A maxed fireball gains 60 and a 6th level slot, a twice empowered Fireball is a 7th slot and you roll 10d6+5d6+5d6). With Empower, you leave it up to the dice. Now, I don't know about Your dice gods, but sometimes, the odds and Tymora are mean. Give me hard, cold numbers.

Yes, a Triple Empowered Bull's strenght could get you a lot of stats, but this is taking up an 8th level slot. For that level, I could have a Persistant Divine Power that lasts ALL DAY. A fighter's BAB, 18 str, and 15 extra HPs. For that matter, I could have a Quickened Stilled Divine Power. Let's take a look at what we can pull out've our butt, for the sheer Power.

Divine Power: Fighter BAB. +15/+10/+5, plus the 18 STR from Divine Power, making that +19/+14/+9.
A Rightous Might making that +24/+19/+13.
Divine Favor at +5 making that +29/+24/+18.
A GMW at +5 making that +34/+29/+23.
For what the hey, let's toss a Regular bull's str for +3 str.
Final BAB: +37/+32/+26.
Final Damage: +11 (Str) +5 (GMW) + 5 (Divine Favor) that's +21 damage, from sheer STR, Magical plusses, and a Luck bonus. Not counting any special abilities on your weapon.

Note, that None of this is an 8th level slot. Considering the Craziness that you can do at 15th level, I don't think a Triple Empower is really going to do much worse.

For an 8th slot, I could have an Empowered Blade Barrier. 15d6x1.5, that offers Cover, and at a 15th level, that's 2 and a half Minutes of painful goodness.

 

[Zhure]

Since a FRA merely requires you not to move more than 5' in a tound, I generally take the Cleave feat between 1st-3rd level for my fighters and combat clerics and use it all the time, in conjunction with 5' steps, nearly doubling the PC's combat ability vs weak foes. It's actually _more_ useful at low levels where most opponents are short on hp. Great Cleave has to wait until after Specialisation is taken, so usually not until 6th.

- A FRA requires you to take no move action. No drawing weapons, etc. A 5'-step isn't a move action. When a low-level character has a BAB of less than 6+, using a FRA eliminates all his good combat options.

- Heck, by that interpretation, using Spring Attack will almost completely eliminate the threat of ever being hit by a cleave attempt.

- Great Cleavers care about using their attacks on low-hit point critters since they can potentially score multiple hits. Cleavers don't care because they're only getting one bonus bing per drop anyway.

 

[Zhure]

Empower does tend to be a far better Feat than Maximize.

As a DM, I like Maximize as it speeds up things when running NPC spellcasters. Point and boom spellcasting.

"You take 25 points magic missile damage. The bad guy moves over here." {skittling minis sounds }

"He's hasted, so he Quickens one for {rolling sounds } 17, then Maximizes another one for 25 more."

Greg "Shoulda quickened an Invis instead"

 

[kreynolds]

Except of course for anything in a (lowly) Silence spell's area of affect.

Interesting point, Larcen. Indeed, this is partially true, but I don't know if it's entirely true. For example, Screaming weapons don't inflict their additional damage in an area of Silence. But as for a spell...

Let's see. A 7th level spell (delayed blast fireball) is negated by a 2nd level spell (silence). Something about that really bugs the hell outta me. Makes you wonder why there aren't variants of the Silence spell, like Antiflame, Anticold, Antiacid, or Antilightning. I have a feeling those don't exhist because they'd be pretty powerful, given their low levels, such as Silence. I've got some thinkin' to do about that...

 

[Zhure]

... but a +1 metamagic negates most effects of silence on spellcasting (save for "language dependant" and communicating with summoned creatures).

And don't forget a lot of non-verbal spells exist.

Greg

 

[kreynolds]

... but a +1 metamagic negates most effects of silence on spellcasting (save for "language dependant" and communicating with summoned creatures).

That's neither here nor there. What bugs me is that a 7th level spell cast by a 20th level Red Wizard of Thay would be completely negated by a 2nd level Silence spell cast by a 3rd level spellcaster. Pretty rediculous, no?

 

[Xarlen]

Interesting point, Larcen. Indeed, this is partially true, but I don't know if it's entirely true. For example, Screaming weapons don't inflict their additional damage in an area of Silence. But as for a spell...

Page 140, Magic of Faerun:

Screaming weapons do inflict this bonus damage within a Silence spell.

 

[kreynolds]

Page 140, Magic of Faerun:

Whoops. I was lookin' at my offline copy of all of the feats, and I apparently made a typo when I gathered them all together. Well, this only further reinforces my belief that a Silence spell ain't blockin' a thing when it comes to a sonic fireball.

Thanks, Xarlen.

 

[Xarlen]

That's neither here nor there. What bugs me is that a 7th level spell cast by a 20th level Red Wizard of Thay would be completely negated by a 2nd level Silence spell cast by a 3rd level spellcaster. Pretty rediculous, no?

And a 1st level fighter can grapple him. So?

 

[Xarlen]

Well, this only further reinforces my belief that a Silence spell ain't blockin' a thing when it comes to a sonic fireball.

Silence doesn't stop the Energy damage. You just can't *hear* it. I think this would negate any 'Deafening' effects. Sonic damage is somewhat akin to 'Vibrations', sort've like a sonic boom. The effect makes the solid surface vibrate so much that it ruptures. Sort've like a blugeoning force from an explosion. That's why things that can't hear can still be damaged, and why objects take full damage from sonic effects.