Bigoted alignments?

[Henry]

Dremen, I'll let the above post stand, because you have clearly marked it as from your own opinion, you have qualified it thoroughly, and it directly relates to the discussion. But I do reserve the right to delete it (and other posts as well) if it gets a little hot in here.

I have an even more telling observation - I will say that prejudice nad bigotry can come from people no matter WHAT alignment you ascribe to them.

For instance, 2nd edition Elves are generally described as Chaotic Good. Yet, Terraism's description almost exactly matches the descriptions of Elves from 2nd Edition AD&D.

After all, in Faerun, what do Elves call non-elves? "N'Tel'Quess" - Translated, it's "NOT-PEOPLE."

Furthermore, prejudice and bigotry can be ingrained in a people so subtly, they may not even recognize it. ALL cultures are to some extent prejudiced, though not necessarily bigoted. (The distinctions between the two are very fine, but understandable.) The very basis of Nationalism is the idea that your culture holds some ideals and practices that are superior to some other cultures' practices. That said, a fantasy race would more likely than not see their culture as "superior" to others. Your own rules and strictures do not even necessarily by law apply to others!

With this in mind, I contend that every race and alignment has the potential to show dramatic Bigotry, regardless. Now, what they DO about this bigotry is where alignment comes into play. Alignment is not necessarily about what you THINK, but how you ACT.

If the Bigotry is genocidal, then said culture is obviously EVIL. If it is heavily regulated, with strict punishments, then it is decidely Lawful. If they have a code, but it only applies to the "real people", then that can be quite Chaotic in outlook.

My advice is not to let alignment get in the way of thinking about prejudice and Bigotry. In today's society we have an automatic reaction to label it as evil, but the truth is that actions far more determine outcomes than thoughts. If the above were not true, FAR, FAR more people would be dead due to road rage and holiday shopping than we currently see.

 

[Terraism]

Thanks, people - it's been a help. Actually, I'm thinking that NoOneOfConsequence and Henry are right - they could very well be chaotic. Your description of a beaurocracy with a handful of "legitimate" leaders is one I really like - I tend to assume that lots of laws = lawful, but I should know better; thanks for pointing that out. (Darn - I really wanted to throw my players off and have elves listed as Lawful instead of Chaotic for this one! Now I've got to convince THEM that chaotics can still have laws.. phew.) Henry - your point about their code only applying to "real people" is one I like, even than just about anything - because that's exactly it. While they elves don't actively persecute those outside their lands - it's not their business, even if they are obviously superior (from their point of view, obviously,) but within elven lands, non-elves (not-people; whew, I REALLY like that one) have no rights.

As far as the good/evil front goes, it's been a lot of help there, too - I'm thinking I'll leave them as neutrals. It does seem to fit - despite their prejudice, the only two groups they go out of their way to persecute are dwarves - an ancient enmity, and I'd say justified 'cause the dwarves kill 'em right back - and half-elves, something they view... probably on the same level as we'd view a human trying to mate with an ape. Thanks again, people - some great ideas in here.

 

[alsih2o]

as for the bigotted, hatred of someone for somethign they cannot change is evil, imo.

just like hating someone for being black, or white, or bald, or short. hating half-elves and the like just for being half-elves is evil.

hating someone for decisions seems non-evil to me. hating someone for a choice they didn't make strikes me as leaning strongly towards the "lawful stupid" side of the coin

 

[SylverFlame]

Originally posted by Terraism

Now I've got to convince THEM that chaotics can still have laws.. phew.

Just use Menzoberranzen from Forgotten Realms as an example. Tons of laws, but it's only a crime if you get caught.

 

[Nifft]

IMHO biggotry isn't evil, it's merely ignorance. However, biggots often use their prejudice as an excuse to perform evil acts -- and those acts are evil.

Ignorance can lead to evil, sure, but so can most things -- it's not supposed to be easy to be good.

-- Nifft

 

[NoOneofConsequence]

Originally posted by Terraism


Just use Menzoberranzen from Forgotten Realms as an example. Tons of laws, but it's only a crime if you get caught.

I actually thought of Menzoberranzen as a possible example as well, but went with Melnibone 'cause I thought people might argue about the interpretation.

But it did get me thinking - Menzo' is very like Melnibone in a lot of important respects. I wonder if there is a concious inspiration? Is there anything in interviews etc where RA Salvatore has mentioned this?

 

[Terraism]

I've gotta admit, I liked the Menzo reference; I understand that. In all honesty, though I know I should, I still haven't read the Elric books... I really should get to that at some point.