Blade Barrier + Damage Reduction

[Dark Dragon]

During the last session, we've got a problem with the blade barrier spell and monsters with damage reduction. Our DM ruled that the spell creates a number of non-magical metal blades equal to the caster's level. Each blade hits the monsters SEPERATELY for 1d6 points, so a monster with DR 5/ +1 would be quite safe...
This would make sense but the spell is somewhat powerless for level 6 after this ruling.
The other option would be to add all damage done by the spell and then substract the DR.

The next question is, how does "Repel Metal" affects a "Blade Barrier"? A Blade Barrier is stated as an immobile disk, but Repel Metal (level 8) pushes away any metal objects ...

Any comments, houz rulings?

 

[Geoff Watson]

Your DM can make whatever ruling he wants, no matter how foolish or incorrect.

DR has no effect on damage from the Blade Barrier. The blades ARE magical (since Spell Resistance applies).

Repel Metal has no effect. The disc is immobile. There is no mention of the blades being metal.

Geoff.

 

[green slime]

From the Spell Description:

This spell creates a spinning disk of razor-sharp blades. These whirl and flash around a central point, creating an immobile, circular barrier. Any creature passing through the blade barrier takes 1d6 points of slashing damage per caster level (maximum 20d6). The plane of rotation of the blades can be horizontal, vertical, or slanted.

...razor sharp blades... ...plane of rotation of the blades...

I would've subtracted the DR from the total damage.

I wouldn't have repel metal budge an immobile barrier...

Spell Resistance applies, of course.

However, YMMV.

 

[Voadam]

here is a quote from the repel metal entry in the srd that seems relevant for the interaction of repel metal and blade barrier

"Fixed metal or stone objects larger than 3 inches in diameter and loose objects weighing more than 500 pounds are not affected. Anything else, including animated objects, small boulders, and creatures in metal armor, moves back. Fixed objects 3 inches in diameter or smaller bend or break, and the pieces move with the wave of energy."

Check with your DM on whether the blades in his world's BB are more or less than 3 inches in diameter.

I would also suggest the argument that even though there are multiple blades whirling around it is not individual short swords but more like a chain saw where multiple blades cut along the same plane and cause one source of damage, so it should be one attack for DR purposes even if the BB is considered a nonmagical blade attacking. Also if he sticks with that view then logically SR won't protect targets from BB and so it should be effective against demons and what not (if you resolve the dr situation).

 

[dcollins]

The DM ruled incorrectly.

A blade barrier is a magical attack -- note that the spell type is "Evocation", which only brings into being energy (you would require something like wall of iron, an instantaneous Conjuration, to create normal material). Hence the magical energy blades are not subject to a repel metal spell (at no point does the spell description say that the blades are "metal"), and being a magical attack, not subject to damage resistance.

DMG p. 75: "Magical attacks and energy attacks (even mundane fire) ignore damage reduction."

 

[Lord Ben]

What if there is an object in the way of the blades? Like you want it to cover a whole intersection and it intersects a part of the wall. Does it just not happen to be there or is there actual physical blades that damage walls or do the blades break, etc?

Say for instance a player wanted to use a large stone table or create a wall of force to block the blades, how would that work?

 

[Magus_Jerel]

hmmm -

The GM is wrong on this one -
If the effect were conjuration, that would be alright - but it IS evocation. It is a clerical spell - so it's "damaging effect" gets somewhat overlooked. I would be inclined to say it is a "force effect" - but it doesn't have the [force] descriptor - unless errata gave it that. If you give a creature SR vs this effect - it bypasses DR entirely.


for Wall of Force -
The wall of force must be continuous and unbroken when the wall forms, else the spell fails. I would be inclined to say that the blades would break up the "unbroken" factor of this.

For the stone table -
I think that the blades would actually "shred" the stone table the same way they do creatures. Use the damage an item rules.

 

[Lord Ben]

Lets say it takes three rounds to shred the table. Could a person stand behind it or does it immediatly form on the otherside of the table and start damaging people again?

 

[Magus_Jerel]

I would say it "forms on the other side" - something like damaging yet incorporeal blades? Maybe that is why they don't have the force descriptor.

 

[Tzarevitch]

During the last session, we've got a problem with the blade barrier spell and monsters with damage reduction. Our DM ruled that the spell creates a number of non-magical metal blades equal to the caster's level. Each blade hits the monsters SEPERATELY for 1d6 points, so a monster with DR 5/ +1 would be quite safe...
This would make sense but the spell is somewhat powerless for level 6 after this ruling.
The other option would be to add all damage done by the spell and then substract the DR.

The next question is, how does "Repel Metal" affects a "Blade Barrier"? A Blade Barrier is stated as an immobile disk, but Repel Metal (level 8) pushes away any metal objects ...

Any comments, houz rulings?

I think that was a poor ruling, but he is DM not me. Blade Barrier is a spell not a weapon. Spells that create, conjure or otherwise behave like weapons usually say so specifically. Blade Barrier conjures something that looks like blades and they do miscellaneous damage. (I always treated them as force effects).

Tzarevitch