Blandest d20 Product?
- Thread starter Sir Elton
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Tyler Do'Urden
Soap Maker
Hmm... bland books?
Fast Forward Entertainment seems to be the king of these- Treasure Quests and Enchanted Locations are both boring and munchkinish (and the latter strikes me as completely useless). Though I think Fast Forward has been bashed enough.
The Early WotC splatbooks (Sword and Fist through Masters of the Wild) didn't do much for me, I like FFG's "Path of" books much better. Though it has more to do with balance and flavor than anything else.
Stronghold Builder's Guide and Epic Level Handbook are both dull, but they have their uses. The ELH could have been much, much more...
Hero Builder's Guidebook isn't much of a book for experienced players, but it's good for n00b's.
Unless you're running a campaign based around mortal combat between Gods, I can't see much use for Deities and Demigods, or Faiths and Pantheons. Both missed opportunities- the 2nd edition Forgotten Realms godbooks were much better, as they concentrated on the clergies, temples, rituals, dogma, and politics of the religions, rather than stats for gods (even if the "Specialty Priests" were highly unbalanced, I still liked the books).
Kalamar struck me as kind of "meh"... low magic Faerun, or maybe an alternative to Greyhawk, but nothing that caught my interest.
Midnight looks much cooler than it really is. In play, it's about as much fun as adventuring in Stalin's Soviet Union, about as depressing as Call of Cthulhu, and quickly loses it's charm. Still the best Tolkien knock-off this side of Harn, though.
Excalibur, dull? I got a different impression- the book gave me everything I needed to run a high chivalry game. Sure, they left in the Fae, and made it slightly higher magic than some purists would like, but that adds to it's charm. The personal setting I've made with it is "Once and Future King" meets "Lord of the Rings", and I've got my players quite intrigued. It's the flavor I've wanted since 3e came out- down with dungeonpunk! (pace, Eberron fans)
Mongoose seems to mass-produce lackluster books, though they seem to have plenty of fans. I'm somewhat intrigued by their OGL Ancients, OGL Cyberpunk, and their Birthright knockoff... I might have to pick them up when my Excalibur campaign comes to a close.
I'm mixed on d20 Starwars. It's a good system, and I enjoy playing and running it from time to time, but the mood is quite different from d6 Star Wars. d6 Star Wars focused on the rebellion, and more on "mundane" characters than Force-users. It had much better starship combat, for instance. d20, on the other hand, is very Jedi-centric, in line with the Prequel movies. Each to their own, really.
Well, rant off. There's good, bad, boring, and flavorful in d20...
Fast Forward Entertainment seems to be the king of these- Treasure Quests and Enchanted Locations are both boring and munchkinish (and the latter strikes me as completely useless). Though I think Fast Forward has been bashed enough.
The Early WotC splatbooks (Sword and Fist through Masters of the Wild) didn't do much for me, I like FFG's "Path of" books much better. Though it has more to do with balance and flavor than anything else.
Stronghold Builder's Guide and Epic Level Handbook are both dull, but they have their uses. The ELH could have been much, much more...
Hero Builder's Guidebook isn't much of a book for experienced players, but it's good for n00b's.
Unless you're running a campaign based around mortal combat between Gods, I can't see much use for Deities and Demigods, or Faiths and Pantheons. Both missed opportunities- the 2nd edition Forgotten Realms godbooks were much better, as they concentrated on the clergies, temples, rituals, dogma, and politics of the religions, rather than stats for gods (even if the "Specialty Priests" were highly unbalanced, I still liked the books).
Kalamar struck me as kind of "meh"... low magic Faerun, or maybe an alternative to Greyhawk, but nothing that caught my interest.
Midnight looks much cooler than it really is. In play, it's about as much fun as adventuring in Stalin's Soviet Union, about as depressing as Call of Cthulhu, and quickly loses it's charm. Still the best Tolkien knock-off this side of Harn, though.
Excalibur, dull? I got a different impression- the book gave me everything I needed to run a high chivalry game. Sure, they left in the Fae, and made it slightly higher magic than some purists would like, but that adds to it's charm. The personal setting I've made with it is "Once and Future King" meets "Lord of the Rings", and I've got my players quite intrigued. It's the flavor I've wanted since 3e came out- down with dungeonpunk! (pace, Eberron fans)
Mongoose seems to mass-produce lackluster books, though they seem to have plenty of fans. I'm somewhat intrigued by their OGL Ancients, OGL Cyberpunk, and their Birthright knockoff... I might have to pick them up when my Excalibur campaign comes to a close.
I'm mixed on d20 Starwars. It's a good system, and I enjoy playing and running it from time to time, but the mood is quite different from d6 Star Wars. d6 Star Wars focused on the rebellion, and more on "mundane" characters than Force-users. It had much better starship combat, for instance. d20, on the other hand, is very Jedi-centric, in line with the Prequel movies. Each to their own, really.
Well, rant off. There's good, bad, boring, and flavorful in d20...
Macbeth
First Post
This is a truly pointless reply, but it has to be said: Tyler Do'Urden. Best Screen name EVAR!
As for pointless books, I'd have to say Gary Gygax's Worldbuilder. In theory I should have liked this book, but I just didn't get any use out of essentially a long list of words. Maybe I just like to put things in my own way, or I have too strong a feel for my homebrew already, but I got no use out of this book.
As for pointless books, I'd have to say Gary Gygax's Worldbuilder. In theory I should have liked this book, but I just didn't get any use out of essentially a long list of words. Maybe I just like to put things in my own way, or I have too strong a feel for my homebrew already, but I got no use out of this book.
Desdichado
Hero
Actually, Stalin's Soviet Union could make a great campaign setting, especially combined with Call of Cthulhu. That would take a really, really long time to lose it's charm for me.Tyler Do'Urden said:
I see your point, I suppose, but I don't agree. I think that against all odds approach is fun.
Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
The Top Ten Blandest d20 Books (so far... )
10.) Mother Gooses' Flayers' Guide to Sponges
09.) Backpaddle Press' Closet World
08.) Bill Weed's One Hundred and One Numbers
07.) Dizzy from the Boast's Toastonomicon
06.) Badman Games' Paint Drying: The Adventure!
05.) Bender & Co The Kingdoms of Kaviar: The Book of Delectable Delicacies Volume XXVI
04.) Nostalgomancer Games' The Commoner's Womb (a beginning adventure for negative level characters)
03.) Falacy Float Games' The Trade Dressers' Guide to Mimics
02.) Malcontent Press' Nomotoasticon
And the number one, blandest d20 book....
Miscelaneous Molehill Games' Players' Guide to Suburbia
)10.) Mother Gooses' Flayers' Guide to Sponges
09.) Backpaddle Press' Closet World
08.) Bill Weed's One Hundred and One Numbers
07.) Dizzy from the Boast's Toastonomicon
06.) Badman Games' Paint Drying: The Adventure!
05.) Bender & Co The Kingdoms of Kaviar: The Book of Delectable Delicacies Volume XXVI
04.) Nostalgomancer Games' The Commoner's Womb (a beginning adventure for negative level characters)
03.) Falacy Float Games' The Trade Dressers' Guide to Mimics
02.) Malcontent Press' Nomotoasticon
And the number one, blandest d20 book....
Miscelaneous Molehill Games' Players' Guide to Suburbia
VirgilCaine
First Post
Treasure Quests? Boy, those are easy to do. How did they think they could make money off of that?Tyler Do'Urden said:
Yeah, the splatbooks weren't very interesting.
Masters of the Wild was written in such a style that I have extreme difficulty in reading it. (It's the only one of the five 3E class books I never reviewed for that reason). Actually, I don't think I've ever read all the way through it... Although there may be interesting mechanics in it, I fall asleep before I get to them.
At least with the Quintessential Druid, I stayed awake because of the occasional amusing mangling of the English language. Did you know that all druids come from the city? It say so in the QD!
Cheers!
At least with the Quintessential Druid, I stayed awake because of the occasional amusing mangling of the English language. Did you know that all druids come from the city? It say so in the QD!
Cheers!
MoogleEmpMog
First Post
Joshua Dyal said:Actually, Stalin's Soviet Union could make a great campaign setting, especially combined with Call of Cthulhu. That would take a really, really long time to lose it's charm for me.
I see your point, I suppose, but I don't agree. I think that against all odds approach is fun.
I've actually done some Soviethulu-esque games (though ironically, set during the actual Russian Revolution and the height of the Cold War, never Stalin's era) and I can confirm that they are *very* playable.
Personally, Sword and Fist can never be a bland book for me when it included a prestige class for playing a Clint Eastwood-style drifter character, the Ghostwalker. Thematically inappropriate? Yes. Totally bizarre? Of course. All but unusuable for a PC? Sure. But 'bland?'
My vote goes to the Book of Exalted Deeds, for the same reasons others have listed.
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