Blindsight vs. Displacement?
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kreynolds
First Post
(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Here's what the FAQ says about Blind-Fight and Blink...
The FAQ doesn't say anything about Blindsight being ineffective against Blink, and neither does my archive of Sage Replys that aren't in the FAQ yet, but I'm still inclined to agree that it doesn't help.
Yee-Haw! Magic Rub, I needs to gets me one o' them new-fangled PHB for Hicks! If that don't beat all!
Finally, a PHB for those with the narrow gene pool disadvantage (how many GURPS character points is that worth?)
Just to put my two cents in:
The PHB for Hicks is completely correct. Blink doesn't interact with blindsight in any way. Vision is not an issue with blink. Your actual existance in this plane is effected by blink, not your appearance.
There are two other considerations presented in this thread.
1) The interaction of blindsight and displacement. Displacement is a purely visual effect and would therefore be negated by blindsight.
2) The interaction of blindsight and silent spells/effects. This is a bit trickier. First off, the rules are completely silent on this issue. So the DM has two options:
A) Silence/deafness has no effect on blindsight. Note that this is strongly supported by the fact that the MM states that "the creature usually does not need to make spot and listen checks..." However, it does say usually, so we need to go to option B.
B) Silence/Deafness (but probably not move silently) DO have an effect on blindsight. In this case, I would rule that the effect is similar to a Blur spell - that is, the creatures senses are not completely negated (smell, thermal sense, air movement etc. still work), so the net effect is that the subject recieves a 20% miss chance.
I would go with option B and vary the miss chance based on my assessment of the creature. A dragon might get a 10% miss chance, while a bat would get a 40-50% miss chance. I would not even tell the PC's my assessment. I would just assign a number and roll the dice. This way I don't have to add a new stat to all blindsighted monsters in the name of consistancy. For the spell I would just give a deafened blindsighted creature a flat 20% miss chance.
figments are another issue however. Blindsight would apparently always see through an illusionary wall, or a phantasmal force. This is kind of a problem, since it gives some great power to the PCs through the blindsight spell. One would also suppose a circumstance bonus to saving throws against figments that have sound and thermal components, if the blinsighted character could see through the illusion. This rapes the whole school of illusion, and with a spell that lasts for hours no less.
Perhapse it would be best to just rule that blindsight offers NO advantage against figments, and that the illusions are complete enough to fool this form of "enhanced perception." Certainly, the description of the ability doesn't SAY that it negates figments, so one could arbitrarily rule that it doesn't.
Finally, a PHB for those with the narrow gene pool disadvantage (how many GURPS character points is that worth?)
Just to put my two cents in:
The PHB for Hicks is completely correct. Blink doesn't interact with blindsight in any way. Vision is not an issue with blink. Your actual existance in this plane is effected by blink, not your appearance.
There are two other considerations presented in this thread.
1) The interaction of blindsight and displacement. Displacement is a purely visual effect and would therefore be negated by blindsight.
2) The interaction of blindsight and silent spells/effects. This is a bit trickier. First off, the rules are completely silent on this issue. So the DM has two options:
A) Silence/deafness has no effect on blindsight. Note that this is strongly supported by the fact that the MM states that "the creature usually does not need to make spot and listen checks..." However, it does say usually, so we need to go to option B.
B) Silence/Deafness (but probably not move silently) DO have an effect on blindsight. In this case, I would rule that the effect is similar to a Blur spell - that is, the creatures senses are not completely negated (smell, thermal sense, air movement etc. still work), so the net effect is that the subject recieves a 20% miss chance.
I would go with option B and vary the miss chance based on my assessment of the creature. A dragon might get a 10% miss chance, while a bat would get a 40-50% miss chance. I would not even tell the PC's my assessment. I would just assign a number and roll the dice. This way I don't have to add a new stat to all blindsighted monsters in the name of consistancy. For the spell I would just give a deafened blindsighted creature a flat 20% miss chance.
figments are another issue however. Blindsight would apparently always see through an illusionary wall, or a phantasmal force. This is kind of a problem, since it gives some great power to the PCs through the blindsight spell. One would also suppose a circumstance bonus to saving throws against figments that have sound and thermal components, if the blinsighted character could see through the illusion. This rapes the whole school of illusion, and with a spell that lasts for hours no less.
Perhapse it would be best to just rule that blindsight offers NO advantage against figments, and that the illusions are complete enough to fool this form of "enhanced perception." Certainly, the description of the ability doesn't SAY that it negates figments, so one could arbitrarily rule that it doesn't.
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I think it would depend on the blindsight.
For a Destrachan, Bat, and thus, I'd say it's Purely on sound. Bats use Ecolocation that transmits through soundwaves, and similiar for Destrachan. A silence spell would block the sound-trasversed waves (Silience stops sonic attacks and abilties, so it should stop this form of Blindsight).
For oozes, who's description says it's a combination of Vibration and Scent, for Assassin vines whom I am guessing is more vibration, and Dragons (The Slayer's Guide to Dragons says it's smell, taste, and sensing vibrations by sensors on the underside of the tail), Silence wouldn't do diddly squat.
For a Destrachan, Bat, and thus, I'd say it's Purely on sound. Bats use Ecolocation that transmits through soundwaves, and similiar for Destrachan. A silence spell would block the sound-trasversed waves (Silience stops sonic attacks and abilties, so it should stop this form of Blindsight).
For oozes, who's description says it's a combination of Vibration and Scent, for Assassin vines whom I am guessing is more vibration, and Dragons (The Slayer's Guide to Dragons says it's smell, taste, and sensing vibrations by sensors on the underside of the tail), Silence wouldn't do diddly squat.
rackabello
First Post
The general description of blindsight ignores this issue, but individual monster descriptions are fairly specific about the nature of the creature's blindsight.Psifon said:
The blindsight of dire bats and yrthaks, for example, is described as relying on hearing and is explicitly stated to be foiled by silence (oddly, the destrachan is also said to have sound-based blindsight, though silence is not mentioned). Grimlocks' blindsight is said to be susceptible to deception by sonic effects and overpowering odors, and to be effectively blinded by a combination of both.
So, Xarlen's and others comment that "it would depend on the blindsight" seems right on to me.
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daemonslye
First Post
quick ruling (on topic)
Will a Dragon's Blindsight ability foil the spell Mirror Image?
Thanks ~D
Will a Dragon's Blindsight ability foil the spell Mirror Image?
Thanks ~D
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