Bo9S as a Model For The Magic System...

[Scribble]

So I recently picked up the Bo9S and something occured to me...

They mentioned fireball not doing 1d6 per level anymore. I was thinking of this when I read some of the maneuvers in the book. Some of them allow you to do xbonus damage when you make an attack. Let's say 2d6 fire Damage.

Now, that damage doesn't scale. It doesn't matter what level you are, it always does the same extra damage.

Later on, however, higher level effects are basically the same attack, just with more damage dice... Say 5d6 fire damage.

Every so often, you can drop lower level powers, and replace it with a higher level power. (You also gain additional maneuvers as well.)

So you could, conceivably drop the lower level power (2d6) and replace it with the higher power, (5d6) or keep them both...

I'm wondering now if this is similar to how Wizards will function as well.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Yes.

 

[Scribble]

Yes.

Has this already been discussed and I totally managed to miss it?

 

[Nifft]

Has this already been discussed and I totally managed to miss it?

It's been on some people's minds ever since Bo9S came out.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Scribble]

It's been on some people's minds ever since Bo9S came out.

Cheers, -- N

I think it would explain a few of the things we've seen so far... For instance the Dragon Fight...

Like the Cleric Healing when he got a crit... Or the Mage having energy resistance...

If every class has a version of "stance," "Boost," "Counter," and "Strike" it would explain how and why certain things happened.

Maybe the Mage was in some sort of "stance" that gave him Fire Resistance.

Even perhaps some of the moves the dragon had were its own version. Perhaps monsters select from their own pool of maneuvers (maybe based o their type, ad category...)

Dragons might have a ton of Maneuvers and stances, but you select only a certain amount. Higher level monsters select higher powered maneuvers.

I'm guessing they'll just be called different things based on the power source... But they'll be essentially the same thing... Making it easier to balance. A spell against a spell as opposed to say a spell vs a feat.

 

[FireLance]

While I acknowledge it's possible that spells will go this way, I really hope not. I'd rather have a single fireball spell that completely scales with level (i.e. no artificial cap) than have a lesser fireball that deals 5d6 damage, a fireball that deals 10d6 damage, an improved fireball that deals 15d6 damage, a greater fireball that deals 20d6 damage and an epic fireball that deals 25d6 damage.

The elements of Bo9S that I do think and hope will make it into 4e are:

1. Spells and abilities that effectively refresh on a per encounter basis. This helps to extend the adventuring day.

2. Fewer spell slots available at any one time, but which can be filled with spells of any level known. Spellcasters will have fewer inconsequential abilities to juggle. Goodbye laundry list of 40+ spells!

 

[Cadfan]

Ironically, BO9S didn't need to do things that way.

Since all maneuver slots are held in common, there's no major reason that you should have to replace a maneuver with a nearly identical but more powerful version. Just let the maneuver scale.

With spells, you need an 8th level spell to be inherently better than a 2nd level spell because its value is tied to its 8th level spell slot, but with maneuvers levels only control when you gain access. Once you've gained it, scaling is moot since it all comes from the same maneuver pool anyways.

 

[Nifft]

Ironically, BO9S didn't need to do things that way.

Since all maneuver slots are held in common, there's no major reason that you should have to replace a maneuver with a nearly identical but more powerful version. Just let the maneuver scale.

Magic items can grant maneuvers, though. There aren't many cases of magic items which scale with the user -- not for free, anyway. Just staves so far as I can recall.

Magic item prices are always a pain.

Cheers, -- N

EDIT: Also, this would allow the Martial Training feat to scale with level, and we all know that feats should suck.

 

[Gloombunny]

While I acknowledge it's possible that spells will go this way, I really hope not. I'd rather have a single fireball spell that completely scales with level (i.e. no artificial cap) than have a lesser fireball that deals 5d6 damage, a fireball that deals 10d6 damage, an improved fireball that deals 15d6 damage, a greater fireball that deals 20d6 damage and an epic fireball that deals 25d6 damage.

I wouldn't worry. They've mentioned that there will be such a thing as a 25th-level spell. To me that's as good as saying that spell level will correspond to character level, because why in the name of all that's holy would they expand to that many levels if it's not to simplify the system that way? And since it would be utterly insane to have a list of spells for each level, making 30 lists in all, I'm fairly confident in predicting that there will be some kind of mechanic whereby spells scale with the caster's level, sort of like 3e psionics.

 

[Exen Trik]

While I acknowledge it's possible that spells will go this way, I really hope not. I'd rather have a single fireball spell that completely scales with level (i.e. no artificial cap) than have a lesser fireball that deals 5d6 damage, a fireball that deals 10d6 damage, an improved fireball that deals 15d6 damage, a greater fireball that deals 20d6 damage and an epic fireball that deals 25d6 damage.

How about if you only need to learn fireball once, and it is able to be a number of times cast per encounter, but you also get a lesser fireball at will, and a improved fireball per day. And each improves by one step at levels 11-20 and again 21-30.

It's still just one spell, it scales with level (but not smoothly, granted) and is fairly simple overall.