Shadeydm said:
Guys, guys do we really have to derail the thread in this fashion? I really wasn't looking for rants on why you don't like fighters or barbarians nor was I interested in blanket "I don't like B09S" statements either. I am looking for general advice for understanding the system and warnings about any manuvers, feats, and or class abilities that might be problematic and how best to fix them. The rest would be better off in another thread please.
Specific Manoeuvers
Ok..here are what I see a lot of people consider problematic.
1. Iron Heart Surge. No two ways about it, this was a misstep. Pretty much everyone *KNOWS* what it is supposed to do (represent Conan overcoming the effect of a spell/ability by an ACTIVE use of force of will as compared to the relative passive use of a saving throw...) yet as written, the manoeuver doesn't do that (can't IHS out of paralysis, yet can IHS an Antimagic Shield)
2. White Raven Tactics. Even without the "use ability on oneself", it is a VERY strong manoeuver if your players set up for it. Unlike say the 9th level WR manoeuver, Warmaster's Charge, which require massive teamwork and huge amounts of luck on the part of the character (and players involved), an ally just needs to be within 10'. The problem is that if the ally is a spellcaster, you get two spells per round much earlier in the game than DMs expect (like many things in D&D, spellcasting wrecks perfectly good options). Of course, the REALLY sadistic thing to do is have a BBEG-cleric surrounded by his Crusader Lieutenants and you will TPK a party with ease.
3. Swooping Dragon Strike may or may not be a problem. It depends on how much the players (ab)use skill bonuses magic items and how common foes are that are not immune to stun you get at level 13 and above.
Specific Classes
At first glance, many people say "watch out for the warblade" but in practice, he's equivalent to a barbarian. Basically, if you have no trouble using monsters and encounters to challenge a barbarian, then you will have the same success with a Warblade (while the warblade gets bonus feats and has the flavour text of the fighter, mechanically it is MUCH closer to the barbarian in class ability).
Similarly, the swordsage looks troublesome because of its wide access to manoeuvers but its lower BAB and its MAD requirements only mean that you have a monk that doesn't suck IMHO. All in all, not a class I'd worry about.
Crusader though, this is by far the strongest of the classes in the book. In terms of damage output, the crusader isn't challenging the warblade or a fighter or a barbarian. Hell, even the swordsage can outdamage the crusader *consistently* IMHO.
What makes this class so strong and WILL cause DMs headache is that it JUST WON"T DIE.
From its decent AC, to its ability to self-heal (through both the use of manoeuvers and its own class ability) to its innate resistance to magic (high HP means evocation magic is less of a threat, and it is very hardy against mind-affecting will save attacks) a crusader is pretty damn hard to put down and is the only class in 3.x that actually deserves the word "TANK/BODYGUARD" as used in the MMORPG context. What will happen is that the other melee classes might be dishing out 10 pts of damage per turn while the crusader is only doing 5-7 pts of damage (which initially makes the DM not consider the crusader a *problem*) yet after 5 rounds, the warblade/fighter/barbarian might be down to their last 10% of their HP while the crusader is STILL hovering at the 90% mark.
You know the old pictures of "Paladin in Hell" where it is surrounded by bodies and fighting on? The crusader CAN ACTUALLY DO this...
Ruby Knight Vindicator and Jade Phoenix Mage: These are the only two PrCs I've seen people have worries about. The JPM, IMHO, is not a problem since really, you do give up two whole spellcasting levels (and in most cases, 3, which means that while your buddy is busting out 9th level magic, you're still stuck with 7th level magic). Similarly, the RKV would be "OK" based on this same paradigm except for one ability. The 7th level ability, Divine Impetus isn't broken per se. However, once combined with anything that gives a large number of turn attempts (I'm looking at you Nightsticks), you might start feeling slightly less happy with the class. Again, the problem isn't that you gain more swift actions but the fact that those swift actions can be used for spellcasting is the problem.
General Advice
Bo9S is as resource-management intensive as spellcasters. What a lot of DMs new to Bo9S don't realize is that the resource you're managing with martial adepts is TIME a.k.a ACTIONS. For most melee classes, the management of swift/immediate/standard/move/full-round is not essential and the only question is "do I have to move to the target? then I get one attack".
For martial adepts and for players and DMs, this can't be ignored. For example, I've seen people use a "Counter" manoeuver, then use a "Boost" manouever. Even in the book itself, there are Strikes which are full round actions which mean that not ALL strikes allow you to move and STRIKE.
