Moggthegob
First Post
There has been no clarfication....I would say go with your gut. I would only let it apply to the ally because that seems to be the spirit of the school....
Bo9S
- Thread starter Shadeydm
- Start date
Shadeydm said:
This one is unclear. I've seen DMs rule both ways with legitimate arguments for both sides. Basically, if you think tumble is too strong, DMs come down on the Thicket of Blades side while those who think Tumble is the only thing allowing rogues/monks to survive melee combat will be on the Tumble side of the question. Sorry couldn't be more helpful.
Shadeydm said:
Yes, that primarily is one of the "tank" manoeuvers which makes crusaders the preeminent "Tank" class in the whole of 3.x. As noted though, you are still limited to 1 attack of opportunity per round unless you have the Combat Reflexes feat.
Arkhandus
First Post
There seems to be a conflict with the Martial Spirit Stance (Devoted Spirit School) under target it says "You" but in the description it says you or an ally within 30 feet. Anyone know which is officially correct?[/QUOTE]
Everything except that one short line describes it as aiding an ally or you, not just you exclusively, so it is obviously meant to affect either.
Also, since Martial Spirit is a stance, it's generally considered to target you personally, even if it has an effect on others nearby. The Holocaust Cloak stance is the same in that regard, for example, even though its effect is to deal fire damage to adjacent foes when they hit you in melee.
Also, the strikes that heal allies or the initiator are written similarly. They target 'one creature', but that is the creature that you hit with them, not the creature you heal with them as a consequence of succeeding on the attack.
For comparison's sake, the stance Roots of the Mountain is of equal level (and available to the same class), and incurs -10 on opponents' Tumble checks to get past you, along with several other related benefits as well as DR 2/-. Thicket of Blades is focused on only making enemy movements around you dangerous, and provides you no special defenses. It is a more focused stance of similar nature, but more strict in its opposition of enemy movement (making it impossible for an enemy to Tumble past you without an AoO, rather than just plain difficult).
Of course, Defensive Rebuke does not give you any extra attacks of opportunity in the round, just extra chances to make use of the AoOs you're already capable of making (if you have Combat Reflexes, then you can make multiple AoOs as normal for that feat; otherwise, Defensive Rebuke is limited as normal to the one AoO each character is normally allowed each round).
Everything except that one short line describes it as aiding an ally or you, not just you exclusively, so it is obviously meant to affect either.
Also, since Martial Spirit is a stance, it's generally considered to target you personally, even if it has an effect on others nearby. The Holocaust Cloak stance is the same in that regard, for example, even though its effect is to deal fire damage to adjacent foes when they hit you in melee.
Also, the strikes that heal allies or the initiator are written similarly. They target 'one creature', but that is the creature that you hit with them, not the creature you heal with them as a consequence of succeeding on the attack.
Yes, Thicket of Blades does do that. It specifies that any movement by the opponent, including 5-foot steps, provokes an AoO from you. Its description already specifically overrides the default rule that some movement, such as 5-foot steps, does not provoke AoOs, and it is fully within the rules doing so (the core says that feats and other effects can grant characters the ability to override some of the standard rules). So yes, Thicket of Blades ignores Tumble checks, as it is later rule and does not mention any exception for Tumble checks (yet clearly says that it works against any movement).
For comparison's sake, the stance Roots of the Mountain is of equal level (and available to the same class), and incurs -10 on opponents' Tumble checks to get past you, along with several other related benefits as well as DR 2/-. Thicket of Blades is focused on only making enemy movements around you dangerous, and provides you no special defenses. It is a more focused stance of similar nature, but more strict in its opposition of enemy movement (making it impossible for an enemy to Tumble past you without an AoO, rather than just plain difficult).
Yes, it does allow that, specifically. Each act that provokes an AoO is a separate provocation, so it is allowed by the rules to make a separate AoO for each with Defensive Rebuke.
Of course, Defensive Rebuke does not give you any extra attacks of opportunity in the round, just extra chances to make use of the AoOs you're already capable of making (if you have Combat Reflexes, then you can make multiple AoOs as normal for that feat; otherwise, Defensive Rebuke is limited as normal to the one AoO each character is normally allowed each round).
Scribble
First Post
I realize this is an old opic, but I recently got the Bo9S and after my current guy died I decided to roll up a Swordsage...
He's pretty cool seeming so far...
He's a 15th level Githzerai Swordsage, and kind of a power build... I normally don't do power builds, but the DM is a long time power gamer in my campaigns and there are only two of us as players in his game... so we need a little power...
Haven't played him yet.
One thing I will say that annoys me in the book, is picking maneuvers for higher level characters...
You know how many you get at that level, but the whole replace lower level ones at certain stages thing makes it kind of annoying to go and figure out how many of each level you can "actually" have... It wasn't super hard to do, but annoying none the less...
He's pretty cool seeming so far...
He's a 15th level Githzerai Swordsage, and kind of a power build... I normally don't do power builds, but the DM is a long time power gamer in my campaigns and there are only two of us as players in his game... so we need a little power...
Haven't played him yet.
One thing I will say that annoys me in the book, is picking maneuvers for higher level characters...
You know how many you get at that level, but the whole replace lower level ones at certain stages thing makes it kind of annoying to go and figure out how many of each level you can "actually" have... It wasn't super hard to do, but annoying none the less...
brehobit
Explorer
Agreed in part. A warblade is _much_ harder to hurt with magic than a barbarian and the barbarian disadvantages (limited rages, limited rage duration) don't show up here. A warblade, is IMO, a more powerful barbarian, at least at lower levels (3-5 for sure).AllisterH said:
The MAD isn't all that bad. In a 32 point game you are likely trading a 16 dex for a 14 dex and 14 wis to get a +1 AC. Certainly helpful. But again, at around level 5 the swordsage gets scary. The 6d6 fireball if you hit with your weapon is really overpowering at this level. Our swordsage would do a tumble in then strike, greatly harming a lot of baddies. It left him vulnerable, but in better shape than a rogue who would only get +3d6 damage to one target at the same level.
Also, there are some crazy builds (halfling, Dex 20, Str8 with a spiked chain using DEX for attack and damage bonus) that were very powerful. Plus some of the stances are mighty powerful even starting at first. Not overwhelming, but powerful.
Yep.
blargney the second
blargney the minute's son
Heh. The counters that let you use Concentration in place of a save are pretty nifty if you can Take 15 on Concentration checks by expending your psionic focus. Last game our sorcerer was popping off color sprays right over top of my warblade with no chance of me failing the save.brehobit said:
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
AllisterH gave a good summary in my opinion.
I love Book of Nine Swords. Despite the flaws (already pointed out, such as formatting of the book and a couple of maneuvers like White Raven Tactics), I think it is one of the best, most evolutionary steps taken in D&D in recent memory.
This idea that it is about anime, and extremely broken, are exaggerations or just outright bashes in my opinion.
I love Book of Nine Swords. Despite the flaws (already pointed out, such as formatting of the book and a couple of maneuvers like White Raven Tactics), I think it is one of the best, most evolutionary steps taken in D&D in recent memory.
This idea that it is about anime, and extremely broken, are exaggerations or just outright bashes in my opinion.
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